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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of look on the sa

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oh my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi folks so coming back from that uh we

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have our next guest on that ufo podcast

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guest number five he is an author

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journalist and educator he's written

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articles for vice 14 times popular

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mechanics and many other

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what would i say many other

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publications

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mj as of course mj banayas someone that

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has been very popular on the ufo twitter

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feeds of recent times and someone a lot

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of you guys have requested i speak to so

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mj how are you

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i'm i'm terrific how are you

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i am very well thanks for sparing some

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time to speak to us i know you've been a

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busy busy guy and i can see from your

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your twitter feed just recently you've

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been looking at our close encounters or

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the third kind scene that your daughter

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has created which is very cool so again

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keeping it in the family

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uh yeah i i it's funny i don't actually

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she just naturally does it i think she's

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channeling or downloading information

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from from the hive mind or something i

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don't know it's it's not my influence

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but

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it's very cool it's good to get them

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kind of involved young that next

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generation kind of coming through of

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ufologists and

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people with an open mind i think in the

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past would have said conspiracy

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theorists but given what we're going to

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talk about it's uh it's always good to

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keep an open mind with these things and

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where we're going so um mj you're

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someone that i started following

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uh six seven months ago on twitter um

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didn't really know

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much about you beforehand and then i

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just realized that in this world you're

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you're really involved there's a lot of

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people tag you in various different

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articles asking for your opinion on

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things and then you can see how involved

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you are so what is your background and

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how did you get involved in the ufo

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subject

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you know my my day job my background i'm

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an educator so i teach english in

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history um full-time and then um i i

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as as a result of sort of my academic

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interests um i i

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was really into at university i'm sorry

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i'll back up my background university

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was in culture studies in critical

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theory

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um

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cultures and how they create knowledge

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and how cultures um

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you know create ideal ideological

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systems and value systems and then kind

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of you know expand outwards from there

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um so i was really big into studying

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subcultures i was really into studying

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um you know like the gothic and punk

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rock scene in the early 2000s and stuff

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like that

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so

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i was really into subcultures i'm still

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into subcultures and um

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i decided that i needed a project um and

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with the help of some other people who i

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knew who are kind of involved in this

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world the paranormal kind of ufo space

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um they pushed me to look at you know

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you should look at the ufo community and

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the paranormal kind of communities um as

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a subcultural study right don't look at

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ufos from the sort of traditional nuts

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and bolts um aspect but look at it more

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from

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how the the culture in the community

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around ufos has developed and grown

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so that's how i got into it um i began

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doing research um i began interviewing

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people i began reading a lot of books

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just like kind of everyone falls down

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the rabbit hole right you start to kind

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of meet the the interesting players and

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you read them um i became a mufon field

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investigator for a couple years i did

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some sort of boots on the ground ufo

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investigation um

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and and it just kind of fell into it i

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eventually started writing a blog um the

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blog kind of spiraled into a book um

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which released was released two years

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ago or a year ago now two years ago

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can't remember it's called the ufo

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people at curious culture um and yeah i

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started writing for vice prime mechanics

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i've written for 14 times lots of stuff

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um so i've kind of become um deeply

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embedded in the ufo community and it's

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become definitely a major aspect of my

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writing career i suppose

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um and that's obviously spiraled into

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other worlds um i do a lot of work into

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looking looking at sort of ufo cults and

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ufo religions uh as well sort of

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conspiracy theories um and conspiracy

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narratives i suppose that often kind of

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intermingle with the the ufo narrative

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so that's kind of where my area of

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expertise is right now anyway um

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long answer to your very short question

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no no listen long answers are good

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otherwise these podcasts can go very

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very quickly so

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it would be a bonus episode but no

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that's amazing so you've kind of got

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involved through like an educational

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background and looking for a project did

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you have any interest before that you

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know growing up as a kid or was it

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something that you came up you came into

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later

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yeah you know i when i was a kid i i was

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a nerd so i was really into science

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fiction fantasy you know i grew up

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watching you know star trek and outer

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limits and twilight zone and x-files and

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and all that stuff so um for me it was

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always you know aliens were always a

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part of it in the sense that i always

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was afraid of them um

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i always had this anxiety about

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these creatures that could come into

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your home

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and take you away um and it's natural i

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think for most kids right you know you

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look at across cultures over millennia

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there's always the tail of the monster

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that will take the child from its bed

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and make it disappear right um we see

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this sort of since the beginning um and

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aliens kind of fit into that narrative

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right they've always had that

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um

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they've always kind of had that that

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idea behind them the abduction and all

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that so

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and i grew up in the 90s late yeah mid

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90s so

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for me i was right in the thick of sort

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of the black triangle alien abduction

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kind of all of that

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um

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so

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i i have always been interested i

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suppose but i've never had an experience

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i've never had what i would say

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um

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uh an authentic sort of paranormal

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experience you know i think maybe i

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heard a ghost once but i'm not sure and

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i'm not willing to chalk it up to a

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ghost right i'm just kind of maybe it

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was a so it didn't affect my life in any

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way um so i i uh

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yeah i i'm i'm

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more academically interested and i think

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i'm i'm

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i'm interested on a human level more so

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than

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maybe the paranormal level

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okay so would you put yourself somewhere

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from a true believer in the subject

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on one end and then on the other end

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you've got god i mentioned them recently

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as well you know like a mick west who is

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really keen on debunking everything

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would you put yourself

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comfortably in the middle of that where

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you've got an objective look at the

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subject

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yeah i'd like to say i'd like to say i'm

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somewhere in the middle i'm a bit of a

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centrist um

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you know i've spoken to a lot of people

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um

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normal everyday people like myself you

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know

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farmers and i'm not a farmer um farmers

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fall on that list somewhere to um you

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know

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billionaire executives to

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people within the intelligence community

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to academics to

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a guy who works at mcdonald's um and and

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they all

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have told me sort of really compelling

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stories and they have no reason to make

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them up they have no reason to lie they

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have no reason to hoax there's nothing

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really in their background that would

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show that they're sort of they're akin

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to delusion

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so so on the one side i sort of believe

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them right i believe their experience

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and and what they're telling me

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i believe sort of happened to them at

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least in some way i'm not going to go

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down the road that it's aliens or i'm

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not going to go down the road that it's

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interdimensional beings or time

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traveling humans or whatever i'm i i

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can't because that's all speculative at

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this point

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um

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but i believe that whatever they

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encountered

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was real enough to them that it sort of

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on the other hand you know i don't want

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to be so open-minded that my brain falls

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out um i think we do need a healthy dose

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of skepticism and criticism within this

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world because there are

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a lot of people who are

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um you know potentially delusional or

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they're here as to to con us or they're

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they're charlatans um

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there's also just a lot of naivete

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um so

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you know you need to you need to kind of

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walk i think a fine line um you know i

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really respect the hardcore

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debunkers and skeptics um and i really

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respect the hardcore believers um and

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zealots as well it's just

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you have to kind of i think walk a

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middle path a little bit with with the

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ufo narrative for sure

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yeah and personally i think there's

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enough interest in material out there

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without having to make up you know

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either way that and again it was

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something you said that was quite

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interesting and one of your i think it

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was actually in your um all the strange

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virtual expo chat it was media and

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culture generate the ufo reality which

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is what you're saying there that through

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generations and going back through the

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gears it's similar to religion the bear

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when you talk about having a god that

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all religions have a variation of the

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same thing and then you go back even

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further and further and further and you

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have this one sun god that started it

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all off and

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again i suppose in the way you can

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actually talk about it is that yes

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you've got

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depending on technologies at the time

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you've got your flying saucers which are

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basically you know spinning plate in the

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00:10:01,910 --> 00:10:00,320
air and even some of the photos for

281
00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:01,920
these things are claimed to be

282
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:04,399
legitimate they look like kids play toys

283
00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,720
like spinning dreidels from the 40s and

284
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:08,240
50s and as we get further and further

285
00:10:12,069 --> 00:10:09,920
and more advanced they've got all these

286
00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:12,079
techno led lights on them and you know

287
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:13,920
things are flashing and out so it's

288
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:16,640
changed with other times and as you say

289
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:17,920
you've got to kind of sit in the middle

290
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:19,360
there don't you otherwise you're really

291
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:20,560
planning your foot on either side of the

292
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,600
defense

293
00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:23,519
yeah i think ufos

294
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:24,640
and i think you know a lot of times

295
00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:26,240
paranormal phenomena in general but but

296
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:28,399
you know stick to ufos um

297
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:30,640
they tend to follow our culture right

298
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,360
they they tend to manifest

299
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:36,000
in ways that

300
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:38,720
mimic or mirror um our

301
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:39,760
current

302
00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:42,959
technological sociological cultural

303
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:44,880
ideologies and frameworks

304
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:46,880
you know i mentioned in all the strange

305
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:49,279
video you know in the 21st century you

306
00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:51,120
know in 2020 it's laughable

307
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,120
to argue for example that um

308
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,519
flying saucers come from venus and

309
00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:59,200
there's a whole collective of space

310
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,200
brothers who live on venus and they have

311
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,600
some sort of intergalactic federation

312
00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:05,680
and they you know are monitoring

313
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:07,600
humanity and they haven't made contact

314
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:09,040
yet because i mean they literally just

315
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:11,200
like you know stealing the the entire

316
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,839
script of star trek

317
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:15,120
you know it's laughable because we know

318
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,680
enough about venus to to pretty much

319
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:19,519
confirm yeah listen there's most likely

320
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:23,200
no giant alien civilization on venus um

321
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:24,959
we would find this sort of laughable but

322
00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:27,040
in the 1950s when we knew very little

323
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:28,800
about the planet venus it sort of made

324
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,640
sense right it was you know we believed

325
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:32,640
to be relatively habitable something

326
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,720
could set up there if it needed to you

327
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:36,240
know people were claiming that men from

328
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:37,600
venus were visiting them and they you

329
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:40,720
know looked strangely human and white um

330
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,200
so you know there there was this again

331
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:45,600
it's kind of this mimicry of culture

332
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:49,040
um and and what was was feasible then um

333
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:50,880
today when you when you engage with

334
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:53,120
people who are i would say are believers

335
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:54,079
within

336
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:58,800
of their work stems and circles around

337
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:00,399
ideas within quantum mechanics and

338
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:02,480
quantum physics um they deal with a lot

339
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,000
of stuff in regards to artificial

340
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,079
intelligence um

341
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,320
consciousness seems to be sort of also

342
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:10,480
rooted in this the idea of sort of an

343
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:12,560
information download from from

344
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:15,120
consciousness itself um so so again you

345
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:18,480
have the narratives of ufology spinning

346
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:19,760
around

347
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,839
um the the real the the um emerging

348
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:25,920
science of today we know very little

349
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,440
about quantum mechanics we know very

350
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:29,279
little about quantum theory um in fact

351
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,800
most quantum theorists sort of say if

352
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,399
you think you understand that you don't

353
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,839
you clearly don't like you you're

354
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:36,079
actually far behind um it's very spooky

355
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,079
and mysterious but it's a perfect kind

356
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:40,240
of place for the mystery of ufos to

357
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:44,560
dwell right um so so we see this

358
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:47,440
kind of manipulation of the ufo

359
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,920
um by our cultural and and and

360
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,480
ideological structures by our media by

361
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,320
where we sort of dwell scientifically

362
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,920
and technologically so

363
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:57,200
um i

364
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:58,320
you know it's interesting because i

365
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:59,839
think what what occurs then is people

366
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,360
kind of go down the road well then you

367
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:02,959
don't think ufos are real right if you

368
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:05,200
think ufos just stem out of culture you

369
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,040
must be saying they're not real it's

370
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:08,240
like i'm not saying not real i just

371
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,279
think that somehow ufos

372
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:13,360
come from that place like they're

373
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:16,399
somehow manifesting out of that

374
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:19,040
void in our understanding um always just

375
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,240
a little out of reach i think that

376
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,639
that's sort of part of the equation here

377
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:24,320
um at least that's my current opinion

378
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,720
but you know that's that's kind of the

379
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,720
best i got at this point

380
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:30,320
and i like that though current opinion

381
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,760
shows you at least open to that being

382
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:33,279
fluid and changing as you kind can get

383
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:34,800
more and that that's the way i kind of

384
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,800
approach this as well and you are right

385
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,160
and again when you see some of the

386
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:40,720
descriptions of visitations encounters

387
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,519
abductions from the 50s 60s 70s and you

388
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,120
hear about these little men came out

389
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,440
with a really um cheap old sounding

390
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:49,040
spacer that you would have dress your

391
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:50,320
kids up in halloween and they had a

392
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,600
little glass helmet because they

393
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:53,440
couldn't be their atmosphere and it's

394
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:56,240
like yeah and then it will evolve now to

395
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,480
what's like a again still quite humanoid

396
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:00,720
looking tall and we've got the grey

397
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:02,880
aliens we've got the tall aliens and

398
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:05,440
then we've got the nordic's description

399
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:06,800
of them you know the ones are walking

400
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:09,600
amongst us and again above bigelow a guy

401
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,920
who i won't mind discussing later on has

402
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:14,000
said himself yet these aliens walk

403
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:15,519
amongst us they visit us they're here

404
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:17,040
and doesn't care what people think about

405
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:18,000
that but

406
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,279
there's still no evidence to back up

407
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:20,720
that claim as credible as someone like

408
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,639
that might be and what has he got to

409
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:24,240
lose making that claim

410
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:26,000
there's still a lack of evidence and and

411
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:28,000
the whole topic either way you can't say

412
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:28,959
there's nothing because there's

413
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,399
definitely something to it

414
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:32,639
but on the on the extreme people who are

415
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,519
claiming that and something is a very

416
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:37,680
small personal pet hate i mean and any

417
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:39,279
listeners who have this i apologize

418
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,320
right but

419
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,880
when people post for fact on twitter oh

420
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,040
yeah that craft is this particular

421
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:47,519
government secret project sure it's like

422
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:50,240
how do you know that or this particular

423
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:52,240
craft is one that i viewed and again

424
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:54,160
these aliens come from this star system

425
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:56,480
on this and it's like again

426
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,360
maybe they do right but how do you know

427
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,120
that and it's that that loses that

428
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,560
objectivity and the kind of shape of the

429
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,920
argument there and i think that's a lot

430
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:05,680
what you're gonna say amongst your your

431
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,120
writing is that right

432
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:08,639
yeah i i just want to kind of point out

433
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:09,360
two

434
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,320
never be a location that you should go

435
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,639
to for like information right um i i

436
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:16,480
mean listen twitter is great and i love

437
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,120
i love um i love being on twitter and i

438
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:21,440
love the social aspects of twitter um

439
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:22,160
but

440
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,800
listen you know you can't fact check

441
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,480
what a lot of people say on twitter so i

442
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:28,480
would just sort of say listen take it

443
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:30,240
with a grain of salt take it as

444
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,399
entertainment right claims made on

445
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,320
twitter should are

446
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,480
should come with that little star at the

447
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:38,320
bottom of us of a website that says you

448
00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:39,759
know this is for entertainment purposes

449
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,279
only right you should always kind of

450
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,720
when reading twitter that should be part

451
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,199
of it um until you can like back link to

452
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:47,360
a legitimate source of information

453
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:50,000
um so that that's one um the second

454
00:15:54,310 --> 00:15:51,120
thing is is

455
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:54,320
you know credibility is a funny thing um

456
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,399
i think just because somebody has you

457
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:58,000
know a lot of money or they run a very

458
00:16:01,269 --> 00:16:00,000
successful business empire or they have

459
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,279
a phd

460
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,160
um or or they work for the government or

461
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:06,399
whatever you know

462
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,519
that doesn't mean um that

463
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:11,920
they can't suffer from

464
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,240
you know delusion or other sort of

465
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:16,639
aspects of being human right um

466
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:19,360
billionaires can make mistakes um

467
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:22,000
suffer from from mental illness or

468
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:23,199
delusion

469
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,560
i'm not saying mr bigelow does or

470
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,320
anything i'm just sort of in general

471
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,120
right um mr bigelow as well as others

472
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:31,360
are mortal just like the rest of us um

473
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,360
we all can suffer from moments of

474
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:35,440
delusion we all can

475
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,440
have moments of of um

476
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,680
confused thinking um we all make

477
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:44,880
mistakes um so i just want to be really

478
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,600
cautious i think we give a lot of credit

479
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,160
to you know this idea of a person being

480
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:52,480
credible and i think that can that can

481
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:54,880
serve you to a point sorry there's a cat

482
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:57,120
here um get out of here that can serve

483
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:58,480
you that's what i've had i've heard

484
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,079
about the cat

485
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,759
it's just it's i can't believe how big

486
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:03,040
it is um

487
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:05,199
and he was the runt of the litter

488
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,640
credibility is a dangerous thing that's

489
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:08,400
all i'm trying to say and

490
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:11,280
um we just need to be cautious i think

491
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,480
when we

492
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:15,600
bow down before the altar of of certain

493
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,919
men and women

494
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:19,280
and say well you know this person is

495
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,880
clearly credible because they have a phd

496
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,240
or they run a multi-billion dollar

497
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,480
empire or whatever it's like yeah listen

498
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:26,480
they're human just like you and i are um

499
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:28,880
and they will suffer from the exact same

500
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:31,120
problems you and i can suffer from

501
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,960
um

502
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,240
you know shakespeare kind of famously

503
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,080
put i think in hamlet right kings and

504
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:38,080
and peasants get eaten by maggots just

505
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,559
the same so you know we need to kind of

506
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:42,720
to best paraphrasing shakespeare um but

507
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:44,000
you know we just need to be cautious i

508
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:46,400
think um so again i i

509
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,840
i'm leery when somebody says well you

510
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,799
should listen to this person because

511
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:50,559
they have incredible credibility like

512
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,320
okay but they're making claims that

513
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,160
aren't very credible so we need to

514
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:56,080
figure out why that is right so when mr

515
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:57,600
bigelow claims for example that aliens

516
00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:59,600
walk among us where is he getting that

517
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:01,600
information from what's the credible

518
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,360
source of that data um and and

519
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:07,039
what's the credible source behind that

520
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:09,200
data right so who told the guy who told

521
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,440
the guy who told the guy um and where

522
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:13,280
does this all stem from right

523
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:14,320
and unfortunately that's kind of where

524
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,919
all the secrets are right and nobody

525
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,720
wants to share unfortunately

526
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,520
and and therein lies the problem so for

527
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,960
you that's an interesting it's an

528
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,320
interesting point of view and i totally

529
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:26,080
appreciate that so regarding credibility

530
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,240
for you what what makes someone credible

531
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:30,320
particularly in this field where

532
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:35,750
makes someone credible

533
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:39,360
sure um you know again as as as

534
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,600
as a journalist right um

535
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:46,080
credibility becomes really sticky um

536
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,440
because you either believe them or you

537
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:49,919
don't a lot of times right most credible

538
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,480
people in in the journalism world will

539
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,799
present evidence to back up their claim

540
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,520
right so if someone is truly credible

541
00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:00,000
they will provide information that

542
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,960
proves

543
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:02,640
what they're saying is true

544
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,400
so you know we take edward snowden for

545
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,240
example if edward snowden walked out of

546
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,240
the public and said the government is

547
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,799
spying on you but i have no proof to

548
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:12,400
back it up apart from the fact that i

549
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:13,760
used to work at

550
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,240
um i used to work for

551
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:17,919
the pentagon i used to work for the cia

552
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,679
you know i'm a contractor

553
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:22,080
if he just came out and said it

554
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:24,320
his story would have gone nowhere right

555
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,840
it would never have been picked up by

556
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:27,679
anybody nobody would know who edward

557
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,080
snowden is no one would care

558
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,240
the fact that he walked out of

559
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:33,360
um

560
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:34,799
you know out of his

561
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:37,360
places of work with a usb stick

562
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,880
with that evidence on it saying yep

563
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,160
here's the program they're using and

564
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,000
here's all the data

565
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,000
well now suddenly edward snowden is a

566
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,480
credible witness and a credible contact

567
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,320
incredible source for

568
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:50,000
one of the biggest stories of the 21st

569
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:51,039
century

570
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,160
um so i think that's that's sort of

571
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,400
part of the game right um

572
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:58,080
there's a lot of people within the ufo

573
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,799
world who say i'm a credible source i

574
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:02,640
know the cia is doing this or i used to

575
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:05,440
work for the nsa or i used to be xyz but

576
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:07,039
they don't provide any evidence to

577
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:09,039
support their claim this is why nobody

578
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:10,400
listens to them because they have no

579
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:11,440
evidence

580
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:13,840
credibility is not enough right you need

581
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,559
to provide the data that backs up the

582
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:18,880
claim itself so when you ask me who is

583
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:21,120
credible and who isn't um do they have

584
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,120
evidence to support their claim of what

585
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:24,880
they're saying is true that's a sign of

586
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:26,159
credibility

587
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,520
um

588
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:29,440
you know after that

589
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:31,120
who they used to work for where they

590
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,799
used to work who they currently work for

591
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,400
it's not really enough especially if

592
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,480
they're making at times you know

593
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,720
somewhat outlandish claims that have yet

594
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:43,039
to be proven in any sort of legitimate

595
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:44,640
or authentic sense

596
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:45,520
so

597
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,559
um

598
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,919
this is why i have to be sort of

599
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,919
cautious because i know the ufo

600
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,360
community

601
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:54,240
hangs a lot of its hats on the

602
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,159
credibility of witnesses right this

603
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,240
witness is credible

604
00:21:01,750 --> 00:21:00,080
therefore this should be considered

605
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,760
evidence on its own

606
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:03,280
unfortunately it's not right that's not

607
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,919
how it works in real life right um you

608
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:07,360
know i don't want to walk into a

609
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:09,039
hospital and the doctors say to me oh

610
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:11,039
yeah listen i'm a doctor and if i want

611
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,640
to ask for where they like okay well

612
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:14,400
show me your you know your md

613
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:15,600
certificate so i know you actually are a

614
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,039
doctor they say hey you know

615
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:18,480
uh

616
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:22,880
know what i'm a doctor i promise i'm

617
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,200
gonna probably find another doctor

618
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:27,039
um we ought to do kind of the same thing

619
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,720
i think in the ufo world right just

620
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,919
because somebody has a story doesn't

621
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:31,440
mean it's necessarily true just because

622
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,480
somebody has a story doesn't mean they

623
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:34,480
have evidence to back it up i think we

624
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:36,159
need to be really cautious with how and

625
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:37,679
how we deal with

626
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,120
um the stories people tell and whether

627
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:43,600
they're true stories or not

628
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:44,880
so when you

629
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,880
one name that springs to mind just with

630
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:48,880
the description you've given there would

631
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:51,679
be someone like a bob lazar who

632
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:54,480
i find bob lazar's documentary really

633
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:57,520
interesting um if i'll be a bit overly

634
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,159
artistic at times um

635
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,720
but the story itself that there's some

636
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:05,039
elements to it i'll look at and go

637
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,880
uh yeah but why doesn't that add up or

638
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,640
surely that would be easily proven and

639
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,159
it's just not there but then there's a

640
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:12,559
lot to it that seems relatively again

641
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,159
i'm going to use that word credible or

642
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:16,159
you know potentially true

643
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:17,520
is that someone you've kind of got in

644
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,880
mind that you think people are hanging

645
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:21,120
their hats on in that sense

646
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,320
yeah i i

647
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:24,080
i'm not sure

648
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:29,039
hat on bob lazar's story um you know at

649
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:30,880
the risk of stout

650
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:33,360
jeremy mccarbell probably did

651
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:36,880
yeah you know and again i i don't wanna

652
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,760
i have

653
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:39,919
thrown enough shade um i'm done fighting

654
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,039
this war um no

655
00:22:46,390 --> 00:22:44,880
listen i don't think bob lazar is a

656
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:46,400
credible individual i don't think his

657
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,200
story is true um i think i think it's

658
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:53,039
completely fabricated

659
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,640
um

660
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:56,000
so so

661
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,520
you know that that's that's my personal

662
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:59,440
position at this time if bob lazar

663
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,400
suddenly presents evidence of his claims

664
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,679
um

665
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,360
you know well then

666
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,440
i will obviously apologize and change my

667
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:09,039
story right if he comes out and says

668
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:10,559
actually here's the bottle of element

669
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,679
115 i stole and you know it goes through

670
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:15,760
proper scientific assessment and testing

671
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:18,000
and turns out yeah it's not manufactured

672
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:19,440
here and it's made by aliens and

673
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,480
whatever um obviously you know we can

674
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:24,799
then say he's a credible individual but

675
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,200
bob lazar's last 30 years or so of

676
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:29,679
existence have really dwelled purely in

677
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,559
the mythological realm um i did it you

678
00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:33,919
don't have to believe me if you don't

679
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,840
want

680
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:36,640
to but you're always going to find

681
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:38,960
people who who do believe right

682
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,400
again there's a lot of naivete out there

683
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:44,400
bob lazar's story has kind of been

684
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,200
thoroughly debunked by a lot of people

685
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,960
no one can find records of his of his

686
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:50,480
academic education

687
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:52,799
no one can find anybody who really

688
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,080
worked with him

689
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,080
um save you know one or two individuals

690
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:58,080
who again maybe kind of remembered him a

691
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:59,039
little bit

692
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:00,080
um

693
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:05,120
from you know his family and ex-wife in

694
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:07,440
regards to this situation

695
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:08,880
they're not really coming out to back up

696
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:11,840
his story except his mom um

697
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,960
you know so i'm kind of

698
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,559
i'm really yeah i'm really hesitant

699
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,320
because i i'm not sure if bob lazar is

700
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,039
really worth the discussion um

701
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:23,279
because it's there's no aspect of

702
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,679
credibility there really that that i

703
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,039
would say

704
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:28,720
even even makes him remotely credible i

705
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:30,159
mean he as far as i know he doesn't

706
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:32,480
really have a any academic training

707
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,600
really um in in his field um because we

708
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,760
can't really show that he went to mit or

709
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:39,600
wherever he claims to have gone

710
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:40,480
um

711
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:42,240
so and again if he was a real

712
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,760
whistleblower he would come out with it

713
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:45,200
right he would you know here's my here's

714
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,000
my diploma or here's my degree from mit

715
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:50,000
here's all of my information

716
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:51,200
um

717
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:52,640
and there's also a lot of weird stuff in

718
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,600
his financial dealings and and his other

719
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:57,520
employment that he's had in regards to

720
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:01,039
running a brothel um you know and and

721
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,600
and and um he has a history of sort of

722
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:05,120
illicit behavior

723
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,279
um you know he for example set up

724
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:09,440
cameras in said brothel recorded

725
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,279
individuals using the brothel and then

726
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,440
was gonna blackmail them um with the

727
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:15,360
video footage i mean this shows someone

728
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:18,000
who who kind of has a predisposition to

729
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:18,799
to

730
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,720
unethical behavior let's put it that way

731
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:22,799
um so i'm not sure if he would even say

732
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,760
he's credible at all um because he has

733
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:27,600
literally some sort of criminal record

734
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:29,840
um so yeah anyway that's my

735
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:32,000
that's my two cents on bubbles are but

736
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,159
we're gonna get a lot

737
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:36,480
no and you know what but

738
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,480
again in this subject if you've not got

739
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:41,120
the the right opinion as as many other

740
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,480
people then you do get that kind of

741
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:44,799
attack as well so um it's a really

742
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,480
interesting again take on that and i do

743
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,240
appreciate that so you've got a case

744
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,880
here that's pretty well documented again

745
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:52,559
it's got its flaws and you've kind of

746
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,640
broken it down really objectively there

747
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,240
so for you what would be on the other

748
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,480
side is there a particular case or

749
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,559
incident or situation that you could

750
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:02,080
look at and go

751
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,640
if you had to do a presentation and show

752
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:06,880
back to someone that this is where i

753
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:10,640
think there is something to uap ufos

754
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,080
that you would you would say this is the

755
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:13,760
best we've got we don't have the smoking

756
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:15,679
gun we know that in the in the field

757
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,480
there is no concrete evidence

758
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:20,320
but what would you say is the best that

759
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:22,080
we've got

760
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,640
um well you know i i think rightly so

761
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:26,320
you know the nimitz case is fairly

762
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:28,640
compelling um i think anything coming

763
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,480
out of the military right is gonna be a

764
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:32,880
fairly compelling piece of evidence

765
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,720
because you know with the nimitz case

766
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:36,000
you you have the video footage but you

767
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,679
also have testimony from pilots who are

768
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,720
there

769
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:41,520
um so you also have a lot of individuals

770
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:44,559
who who used to work in the intelligence

771
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:45,919
world coming forward and saying yeah

772
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:48,320
this stuff's authentic um and and you

773
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:49,679
know being able to prove they worked

774
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:52,320
there right um you know you know so it

775
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:53,679
takes someone like chris mellon or louis

776
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:56,320
alizando um they're not saying oh you

777
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:57,120
know

778
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:58,799
my files and records are missing or they

779
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,640
were burnt in a fire or something right

780
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:02,559
like they can literally provide all of

781
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,960
the information to kind of say yeah

782
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,640
listen this is what i did for a living

783
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:08,240
um i know there's been some some

784
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,360
concerns over you know mr elizondo's um

785
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,600
you know background but um you know

786
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,200
unfortunately you know those concerns

787
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,720
are our moot you know there's been

788
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,480
enough present and evidence presented

789
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,559
now at least to me that proves mr

790
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:21,919
alzando did

791
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,840
work on the program he says to have

792
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:26,159
worked on so i have no doubts in my mind

793
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,480
that um you know an individual like lois

794
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:30,000
alzondo or an individual like chris

795
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:31,200
mellon

796
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:33,919
um you know did do what they say they

797
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,720
did

798
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:37,039
um so so i think that there's something

799
00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:38,720
to be said for that that doesn't

800
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,159
necessarily prove and i think we need to

801
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:42,080
be really again careful here it doesn't

802
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:43,440
necessarily prove that aliens are

803
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:45,039
visiting us it doesn't necessarily prove

804
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:47,279
that there is some intelligence that's

805
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,080
not us coming to earth engaging with us

806
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:53,039
in some in some special way um it proves

807
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,799
that if anything um the the military and

808
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:58,640
and the government and the authority

809
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:01,679
designed uh to keep us safe and and

810
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:05,039
monitor the skies monitor the sea

811
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,720
is not able to necessarily track

812
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:08,480
everything that's happening and is

813
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:11,200
unable at times to deal with incursions

814
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,440
um violating airspace so so again i want

815
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,600
to be really cautious here

816
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,440
what we have evidence of in the case of

817
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,279
the nimitz and in the other two videos

818
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,960
from the roosevelt the gimbal and the go

819
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:24,640
fest um

820
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:26,559
is not evidence of aliens and it's not

821
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:28,080
evidence of of

822
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:29,760
interdimensional beings or anything

823
00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:32,640
paranormal it's evidence of

824
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:35,120
an incursion being made where the

825
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:36,799
authorities whose job it is is to

826
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,440
prevent incursions couldn't

827
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,559
um

828
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,960
so the big question becomes you know

829
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:45,360
what was it then right this is where

830
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,960
speculation runs amok and this is where

831
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:49,200
ufo twitter goes crazy right well it did

832
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:50,880
this this this therefore it must be x

833
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:52,240
it's like well that's that's not how

834
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,960
evidence works but you know we can

835
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,960
we can um you know we can engage with

836
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,640
speculation later i think at first we

837
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:00,320
need to figure out more about kind of

838
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:01,760
the human side of this you know who's

839
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:03,200
running the program

840
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:04,000
you know

841
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:06,159
who's still running it today where is it

842
00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:07,440
acting out of how can we get more

843
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:09,120
information about it how can we get more

844
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:11,200
evidence out um

845
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,200
so this is sort of the job of of myself

846
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,520
um other journalists like tim mcmillan

847
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:19,760
who who potentially can can engage some

848
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:21,760
of these higher levels to kind of kind

849
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,480
of sussing out information the problem

850
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,640
is slow going um

851
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:28,320
it's not like you email the pentagon and

852
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:29,760
suddenly they're like oh you got us red

853
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,760
handed here's all of our stuff right it

854
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,440
doesn't really work like that there's a

855
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:35,440
lot of well contact this person or don't

856
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,720
talk to this person or we'll keep you

857
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:38,080
post like it's

858
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,440
they yank you around a bit so you have

859
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:41,520
to work your way through other channels

860
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:43,600
and um nimitz that to answer your

861
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,000
question the nimitz case and and a tip

862
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,240
is is an interesting situation

863
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:50,320
no awesome so i it sounds to me like

864
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:52,080
from your description there

865
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,000
aloe ellis ondo is someone that you can

866
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,240
look at and explore further because like

867
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,840
you say he is never once and this is

868
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,559
what i love about ttsa and i love tom

869
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:03,919
delong but i'm going to remove him from

870
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:06,240
this conversation for a second where a

871
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,520
chris mellon

872
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:10,640
a help it of uh luella zondo has never

873
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,360
gone on gone on glenn beck or fox or cnn

874
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:15,679
or whatever network and said it's aliens

875
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:18,640
they always make a point of going for

876
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:19,679
the

877
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,679
performing maneuvers we find quite

878
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:32,399
incredible generational leaps ahead

879
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,559
beyond leaps beyond leaps beyond leaps

880
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,480
and we don't know what they are so

881
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,080
that's where someone like you can get on

882
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:40,080
board with that conversation because you

883
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:41,760
can you can take that at face value and

884
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,320
say yep this guy is who he says he is

885
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,799
and you like the way he thinks

886
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,799
sure i i think what i think i need to

887
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,080
kind of i mean we need to sort of pull

888
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:53,039
back here i mean you know yes um

889
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:54,559
do

890
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,320
we we we need to be cautious though

891
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,320
because even though lou elizondo chris

892
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:00,399
mellon and the rest of the contractors

893
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,559
and crew at ttsa do say you know are who

894
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,159
they say they are right that that's been

895
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:08,159
thoroughly documented we don't we're not

896
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,600
questioning their their their background

897
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:13,039
um

898
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,440
just because that's the case though you

899
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:17,600
know they are still susceptible to the

900
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,559
same

901
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:20,640
issues the rest of us are right they're

902
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:23,360
still susceptible to very human problems

903
00:31:27,269 --> 00:31:24,799
that can

904
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,279
potentially manifest in ways that would

905
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:29,919
you know perhaps seem like let's say an

906
00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,279
encounter with um you know an alien

907
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:35,120
entity or or whatever so what i'm trying

908
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,840
to get at is they can still be believers

909
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,200
right they can still have a vested

910
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,760
interest in finding validation for their

911
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:43,679
personal beliefs in regards to

912
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,279
interdimensional beings or

913
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:47,039
ultra-terrestrials or extraterrestrials

914
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:50,799
or whatever so um you know i i i i love

915
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,760
lou he and i speak fairly frequently um

916
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:55,600
you know i would consider him a friend

917
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:57,039
because you know we often talk about our

918
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:59,840
kids um we talk actually very little

919
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,000
about ufos most of the time um

920
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:04,480
so i love the guy but you know is it

921
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:06,000
possible that you know he's a believer

922
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,440
in aliens or something of course it is

923
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,360
it's everyone can be a possible believer

924
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:11,200
i you know personally you know i'm

925
00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,880
catholic so i believe that a dead jewish

926
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,799
guy came back to life three days after

927
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,559
they nailed him to a piece of wood so

928
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:18,080
you know we all have sort of paranormal

929
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:20,320
beliefs or we're all susceptible to that

930
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,320
does that then make me more friendly

931
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,799
let's say to a catholic worldview sure

932
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,159
of course it does because it's part of

933
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,120
my worldview um you know alexander or

934
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,679
melon or put off or jim semivan or steve

935
00:32:37,110 --> 00:32:33,679
justice or whatever they might have

936
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,120
beliefs that lead them to certain um

937
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:39,760
predisposed um

938
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:41,360
ideologies

939
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:43,039
that being said in their defense in the

940
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,480
defense of melanin lou and the rest of

941
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,360
the guys and gals you know they are very

942
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:48,640
careful in the way they were things and

943
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:49,919
i'll agree with you there they don't

944
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,519
walk around saying it's aliens and we're

945
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,360
gonna be invaded like they don't do that

946
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:55,760
which is i respect that right they they

947
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:58,240
maintain that healthy dose of skepticism

948
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,480
and critic critical thinking that they

949
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:02,240
say listen it could be aliens but it

950
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,519
could be a lot of other things too and

951
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:05,039
we just need to be cautious before we

952
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:08,320
start speculating and going crazy um and

953
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,440
creating our

954
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:11,440
own sort of mythological constructs

955
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:15,120
within ufology and ufo and uap discourse

956
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,399
um so

957
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:18,080
there's a lot of caveats there and i

958
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:19,679
think all i'm really trying to point out

959
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,679
is that people regardless of their

960
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:23,600
position who they are where they're from

961
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,640
what the paperwork behind them says

962
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:29,200
um are very complicated right humans are

963
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,720
complicated creatures and we have a lot

964
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,120
of beliefs and values and ideas that

965
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:34,880
lead us down different paths there's no

966
00:33:39,909 --> 00:33:37,360
such thing as total objectivity

967
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,919
we try to be objective but we just can't

968
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,399
be it's impossible so

969
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:44,000
i want to kind of caveat that when i

970
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:46,399
look at people i don't see sort of this

971
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:47,840
black or white

972
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:50,640
they're here or they're here um

973
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,440
people are really strange um and have a

974
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:56,159
whole array of experiences and ideas

975
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,519
um and it i think predisposes us to

976
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:00,960
believe certain things or not believe

977
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,840
certain things or be critical or or or

978
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,399
more active and in our imagination

979
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:08,399
towards you know different constructs

980
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,119
and realities we build for ourselves

981
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:13,200
okay i think i'm done now

982
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,399
again it's a great answer okay uh

983
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,639
i'm i'm trying to think how i ask

984
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:20,560
someone that i'm getting to grips with

985
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,079
your views and the way you're thinking

986
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:24,240
which i totally appreciate

987
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:26,159
how to ask this question

988
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:29,599
that you gave me an answer um

989
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:32,480
an instant then you said nimitz uh

990
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,040
nimitz and princeton incident

991
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:37,679
what would you like that to be

992
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:39,520
so that at the end of the day whether

993
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:41,040
it's uh look it was us government

994
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:42,720
technology we'll realize how we can defy

995
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:45,440
the laws of physics or it's it's russian

996
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:48,079
or what what would you like it to be if

997
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:49,760
i can want it that way

998
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:51,440
do what do i will what are you asking me

999
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,879
what i think it is or what i wanted it

1000
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,800
to be well if you're going to if you

1001
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:56,480
would tell me what you think it is i

1002
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:58,640
would absolutely take that as an answer

1003
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,359
oh yeah listen i i don't know

1004
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,839
that's so funny um well i mean obviously

1005
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,160
i i don't i i can't tell you what it is

1006
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:07,920
because i don't know um

1007
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,599
i don't think anybody knows

1008
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:11,040
um

1009
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,870
yeah listen the date is still out

1010
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,150
you know if i had to go straight by pure

1011
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:27,119
just occam's razor here right just let's

1012
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:29,040
let's throw out

1013
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,760
without all that right

1014
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,280
you know we're probably dealing with

1015
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,720
some prosaic

1016
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,000
drone or

1017
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:41,760
or some sort of test aircraft or

1018
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,640
whatever

1019
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:45,119
but once you start adding in

1020
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:46,880
the layers of other ideas that are

1021
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:48,160
present or the other piece of evidence

1022
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,520
that are present right so so the video

1023
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,119
alone is not enough

1024
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,200
you know we have witness testimony we

1025
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:55,520
have um testimony from radar operators

1026
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:56,640
who are on the nimitz or on the

1027
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:58,960
princeton rather we have all of this

1028
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,000
other content and it's irresponsible to

1029
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,320
ignore it just because you can't prove

1030
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,000
someone's story

1031
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,400
if there's sort of a whole swac of

1032
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,720
evidence around it that kind of makes

1033
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:12,240
that testimony compelling you can't

1034
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:13,680
ignore it because it's definitely part

1035
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:15,200
of the equation

1036
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:16,640
you know all of a sudden we're dealing

1037
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:19,200
with a drone that is doing things that

1038
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:21,200
you know are not possible and and we're

1039
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,920
dealing with with test aircraft that are

1040
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,480
violating the basic laws of physics or

1041
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:27,920
we're dealing with

1042
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,400
um you know vehicles that can spoof

1043
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:32,640
radar the most advanced radar on the

1044
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:35,839
planet so effectively that um

1045
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:38,400
it it it's making it seem like there's

1046
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:40,000
multiple radar tracks even though these

1047
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:41,839
things are designed to to not get

1048
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:44,480
spoofed um

1049
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,880
you know suddenly it becomes a lot less

1050
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,880
possible that it is a drone or it

1051
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:50,880
becomes a lot less possible that it's a

1052
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,880
test aircraft from a foreign power um

1053
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,560
so

1054
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,800
am i saying that

1055
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:00,240
it's uh sorry

1056
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:03,440
is it possible that it's otherworldly

1057
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:05,599
of course it's possible

1058
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:06,800
um

1059
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:09,760
is it is it otherworldly i don't know

1060
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:10,640
um

1061
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:11,920
i don't think there's enough information

1062
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:14,880
to make that that guess you know i've

1063
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,599
heard rumors there's other videos of of

1064
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:19,920
of um

1065
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:22,320
of other air or other vehicles i've

1066
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:24,079
heard rumors that the the you know

1067
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:25,520
pentagon has

1068
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:28,240
oh my gosh has other sort of tidbits of

1069
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,839
data

1070
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,440
and they're not sharing and maybe

1071
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,520
rightly so for national security reasons

1072
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,839
i don't know

1073
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,599
you know based upon those rumors i can't

1074
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,880
do much with it but again if those

1075
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,320
rumors turn out to be true then then the

1076
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,240
things i've heard are truly spellbinding

1077
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,960
and mystical and i'm i'm i'm kind of at

1078
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,040
this point in my life now where i've

1079
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:49,119
done this long enough to realize that

1080
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:50,560
either

1081
00:37:58,950 --> 00:37:53,359
whatever

1082
00:38:02,829 --> 00:38:01,109
is either real

1083
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:02,839
which scares the hell out of me

1084
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:04,880
because clearly the people who are

1085
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:07,520
supposed to be protecting me can't

1086
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:09,920
or the people in charge of intelligence

1087
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,839
gathering and intelligence and

1088
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,599
counterintelligence in the united states

1089
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:15,520
of america

1090
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,680
are are completely delusional um and

1091
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:19,200
they're making stuff up

1092
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:20,480
and that scares the hell out of me too

1093
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:22,800
because the people in responsible for

1094
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:25,119
the the nation's um

1095
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,240
like most important and and dangerous

1096
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,480
special access programs weapons the

1097
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:33,359
nuclear bombs themselves right um

1098
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:36,480
are are believing in aliens and demons

1099
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,960
and and the second coming of christ and

1100
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:40,960
and um

1101
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:43,119
in a very kind of literal real way that

1102
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:44,880
there's like a war going to be like it

1103
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:46,160
scares the hell out of me as well right

1104
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:47,599
and these are like two evils i don't

1105
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:49,040
necessarily want to deal with

1106
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,480
um so so i'm

1107
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,079
i don't know right and to answer your

1108
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:56,560
question i i i i do not know what is

1109
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:59,680
responsible behind it um

1110
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:01,440
i really hope it's a mistake sometimes

1111
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:03,680
um and it's like a drone or something

1112
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,240
because then it's not so scary but um

1113
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,400
yeah it's it's it's really odd um the

1114
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:10,720
more you talk to people who who might

1115
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:13,040
know some things you you realize like

1116
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:15,280
nobody has a grip on anything um

1117
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,960
and and

1118
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,320
that is more frightening than having a

1119
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:20,320
grip on it which i think is is maybe

1120
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,160
from a cultural level why the ufo

1121
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:24,320
community is really really

1122
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:27,119
invested in speculation um it's a lot

1123
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:28,960
easier to deal with something when you

1124
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:31,359
understand what it is um so if i can say

1125
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:32,880
it's aliens or i could or i can say it's

1126
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:34,000
interdimensional beings or

1127
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,440
ultraterrestrials or whatever if i can

1128
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,680
give it a name suddenly i have power

1129
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:39,119
over it right that's kind of what what

1130
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:40,640
they say about demons right in the in

1131
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:42,240
the in the bible right in in the

1132
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,000
judeo-christian tradition if you can

1133
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,560
name the demon um and you know its name

1134
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:48,400
you have power over it

1135
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:49,760
i think that we sort of see this within

1136
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,480
ufology right if we can establish

1137
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:54,480
a speculative place of where something's

1138
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,960
from right if i can identify it as alien

1139
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,200
suddenly you know i can control it in

1140
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:00,800
some way there will be a point maybe one

1141
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,320
day where humanity will be able to kill

1142
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:04,400
it if we have to um

1143
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,920
so

1144
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,680
but when you're facing with a truly

1145
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:09,359
unknown right you have no idea what it

1146
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:13,040
is um you you're powerless against it um

1147
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,800
and you start to really

1148
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:17,040
question your place in the universe and

1149
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:18,160
and and

1150
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:18,960
um

1151
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:21,680
can you is the world around you the

1152
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:23,040
reality that

1153
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:24,480
is the world around you

1154
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:26,960
stable enough to call it reality or or

1155
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:30,000
is it sort of this wibbly wobbly round

1156
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,280
thing with bits floating in the middle

1157
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,400
and and reality's all wonky um this is

1158
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:36,240
unnerving for people um and this is

1159
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:37,599
unfortunately the world you get dragged

1160
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,280
into when you kind of walk into the ufo

1161
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:43,040
deep narrative

1162
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:45,760
spaces of your brain sorry yeah

1163
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:46,480
no

1164
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:49,119
less than six months ago i would have

1165
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,400
been

1166
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,640
very hesitant to say that you know

1167
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,160
next month there's going to be a fake

1168
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,160
alien invasion but what what i've seen

1169
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,560
in the last six months uh i didn't think

1170
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:00,240
i would see in a lifetime to be fair for

1171
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,240
who dwight um so i would not leave

1172
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:05,040
anything off the table at the minute

1173
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,880
thank god we've got um stable world

1174
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:08,160
leaders in place that wouldn't do

1175
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:16,790
yeah isn't it just um circling back

1176
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:17,920
because you did mention again about the

1177
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,359
ufo community and i do want to kind of

1178
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:21,760
touch on your book so the book you you

1179
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:23,440
mentioned before was the ufo people are

1180
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:26,640
curious culture do you consider yourself

1181
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:29,280
one of the ufo people now

1182
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,160
um

1183
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:32,400
i've become i think an honorary member

1184
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,800
of it yeah let's put it that way um i

1185
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:36,560
consider myself a member of the ufo

1186
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:38,319
community and a ufo person i think yes i

1187
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,000
do because

1188
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,040
in writing about it um i've come to love

1189
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,640
it um

1190
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:46,880
and and for all of its

1191
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:54,309
you know

1192
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,400
group is is is gonna be awesome all the

1193
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:02,640
time so i think there's aspects of the

1194
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,640
ufo community that i really appreciate

1195
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,960
um you know most namely

1196
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:09,119
that

1197
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:11,920
my interest in ufos has led me to meet a

1198
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,000
lot of interesting people

1199
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,640
people who in any other

1200
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:18,319
you know

1201
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:21,280
area of let's say study i never would

1202
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:22,560
meet um

1203
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:24,640
you know i've i've met

1204
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:27,119
the world's leading experts in a lot of

1205
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,720
different fields

1206
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,400
i've got to

1207
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:33,280
you know ride in a helicopter with a you

1208
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,880
know multi-millionaire um i've i've gone

1209
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:39,119
places and been with people who are

1210
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:42,240
unique and fascinating um

1211
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:43,119
and

1212
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,160
their level of of engagement with ufos

1213
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:48,960
varies but they're all kind of drawn to

1214
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,119
the mystery that is the paranormal or

1215
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,520
the ufo right um

1216
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:55,760
it has it has become sort of their

1217
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:57,359
search for

1218
00:43:00,950 --> 00:43:00,000
themselves in a sense right you know the

1219
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:00,960
search for god is kind of the

1220
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:04,079
quintessential way of looking at it um

1221
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:05,920
but they're really just trying to figure

1222
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,079
out their place

1223
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,920
in all of this

1224
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:11,599
and the nice thing about ufos is it

1225
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,720
provides a great bridge for that right

1226
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:17,200
it provides a great way for me to be

1227
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,560
able to engage with some of these

1228
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:20,720
individuals through a mutual interest

1229
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:22,720
and then you know make be friends with

1230
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:25,200
them and engage them and you know

1231
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:26,880
hang out with them and you know go for

1232
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:29,119
dinner with them or drink beer with them

1233
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:30,400
so

1234
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,280
i would say that

1235
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:35,599
that's the part i love right meeting a

1236
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,599
lot of interesting unique people who

1237
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:39,680
have very interesting ways of looking at

1238
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,319
the world around them

1239
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:44,319
you know the other side is is dealing

1240
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,119
with the more dangerous aspects right um

1241
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:48,960
the the the stuff that stems out of the

1242
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:51,839
insanity of it all um you know i had the

1243
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:54,240
luxury for the last eight months to

1244
00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:57,680
literally follow a ufo cult around um i

1245
00:44:02,550 --> 00:43:59,839
shouldn't call it a cult um i redact

1246
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:02,560
that statement a ufo spiritual belief

1247
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,599
system

1248
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,440
i don't know my lawyers will figure it

1249
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,119
out um but

1250
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,079
the you know so again and and that leads

1251
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:12,480
you down some dark places right um it

1252
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:15,280
leads you down a path of of individuals

1253
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:18,800
using ufos uh and the paranormal to

1254
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:22,000
um cause harm right they sell snake oil

1255
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:25,920
they they sell conspiracy they they sell

1256
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:28,720
active disinformation for the purposes

1257
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,599
of

1258
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:31,839
like weakening established systems

1259
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:34,560
whether it's in in academia or democracy

1260
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:37,760
in order to profit from it um whether

1261
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,200
they do it because they believe it or

1262
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:42,160
whether they do it because they are um

1263
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:44,800
charlatans and con men um you know

1264
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:46,800
that's yet to be seen

1265
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:47,760
but

1266
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:49,839
the other side of all this is is the

1267
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:51,920
fact that

1268
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:55,040
it's it's also dominated by a cast of

1269
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:56,800
actors who

1270
00:45:03,190 --> 00:44:58,880
are engaged in

1271
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:03,200
like nefarity um and unfortunately some

1272
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:06,400
people within the ufo community are so

1273
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:07,760
zealous

1274
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:08,960
in their belief that they're willing to

1275
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:11,920
buy it um because perhaps their search

1276
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:14,560
for vindication and for god um is much

1277
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:17,440
more desperate um than some of the rest

1278
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:18,480
of us

1279
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,520
so

1280
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:21,119
i think that that

1281
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:22,800
that's what the book generally deals

1282
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:24,960
with right it deals with this wide array

1283
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:27,839
of people who who who chase this

1284
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,599
phenomenon in a lot of different ways um

1285
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:34,240
and the subculture is filled with people

1286
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:37,359
who are amazing wonderful interesting

1287
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:41,119
unique um and they have a lot to add to

1288
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:42,960
society and the world around them and

1289
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:45,839
it's also filled with individuals who i

1290
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,640
consider to be extremely dangerous um

1291
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:50,800
who care little for for

1292
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:52,240
the words that they say and the words

1293
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:54,000
they choose to use and the messages they

1294
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,480
create and and the real effects it has

1295
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:58,800
on people's lives um to the point where

1296
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:01,119
people have have committed suicide or or

1297
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,800
killed one another um as a result um so

1298
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:06,079
so there's

1299
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:07,680
you know there's

1300
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,319
it's it's a fickle mistress um being a

1301
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,200
member of the ufo community um and and

1302
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,599
you're not really sure

1303
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:17,680
always who's playing for whose team and

1304
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:20,800
and and it takes a lot of time to suss

1305
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:23,839
out where a person stands um in regards

1306
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,640
to

1307
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:27,359
yeah

1308
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,119
very very good point and someone like

1309
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:31,680
myself i

1310
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:33,839
i want to know what it is

1311
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,040
and whatever that may be i naturally

1312
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:39,119
have a curiosity for anything okay now

1313
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,760
what next if it is aliens from another

1314
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:43,200
planet that managed to come here and

1315
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:45,040
visit then great you know what's it like

1316
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,480
why did you do that you know what else

1317
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:48,240
do you know that we don't if it's

1318
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,000
different realities in the dimensional

1319
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,079
ultra-terrestrial then again equally

1320
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,920
fascinating okay where do we go from

1321
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,480
here how does that affect us i think

1322
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:58,319
there are

1323
00:47:02,550 --> 00:46:59,760
again a group of people that you have

1324
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:02,560
mentioned to make a lot of money um

1325
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:05,520
selling apps selling books selling their

1326
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:07,839
side of the story that their worst fear

1327
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,000
would be we do find out what this is

1328
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,319
because then we have an answer uh or at

1329
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,240
least you know what what you're peddling

1330
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,079
isn't correct it isn't true it never has

1331
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,560
been true and they get found out and

1332
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,400
yeah that those people can be pretty

1333
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:22,240
serious and it's a shame that some of

1334
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:23,760
these people get their own documentaries

1335
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:26,160
get their own tv shows and get to have

1336
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:27,839
the platforms to do because you can

1337
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:30,720
absolutely aim at a section of the the

1338
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:33,040
ufo community that if you want to class

1339
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,240
it as vulnerable is definitely there and

1340
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,240
they definitely pray on that which is

1341
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,920
unfortunate but it's going to happen in

1342
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,599
any section of society i think is

1343
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,760
something that you're far more and a

1344
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:45,200
better place to talk about than i am

1345
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,880
anyway given the subject that you've

1346
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:48,000
written on

1347
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,680
um yeah i i think you're right i think

1348
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,200
vulnerable is a great word i think i

1349
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:52,960
think we all enter into stages of

1350
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,359
vulnerability um

1351
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:57,280
at times in our lives right everyone has

1352
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:58,880
experienced

1353
00:48:01,829 --> 00:47:59,839
being

1354
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:01,839
so beat down that that they're almost

1355
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:02,880
broken

1356
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:04,480
and it really depends on who's around

1357
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:06,000
you to help you put those pieces back

1358
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:07,440
together if you have a stable support

1359
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:10,800
system a loving family whatever to help

1360
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,839
you rebuild after being knocked down

1361
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:16,160
typically you know you have

1362
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:19,520
a healthy process to to rebuild life

1363
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:22,640
if that isn't in place or or there's

1364
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:25,599
issues with that um or there's obviously

1365
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:28,400
mental health concerns or whatever

1366
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:31,119
suddenly what starts to fill that gap

1367
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,760
are our individuals who are willing to

1368
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,079
tell you that you are special and you

1369
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,319
are unique and you are one of the chosen

1370
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,880
and you can be saved um and if you

1371
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:42,720
simply do this if you simply click

1372
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:45,119
subscribe if you simply buy this book if

1373
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:46,880
you simply sign up to my class if you

1374
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:50,079
simply join me on this convention floor

1375
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,280
or you come to my meeting

1376
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:55,920
suddenly you know you're finding your

1377
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,480
vindication um

1378
00:49:02,309 --> 00:49:00,880
and you're rebuilding in in someone who

1379
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:02,319
does not necessarily have your best

1380
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:04,559
interest in heart but rather someone who

1381
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:07,200
has your money um you know and wants

1382
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,720
your money or or

1383
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:11,200
or you know even worse they they're

1384
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,480
they're delusional they want your soul

1385
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,280
in a sense right they want to to own

1386
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,680
um you and i have power over you and

1387
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:19,520
this is how really religions and cults

1388
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:20,559
kind of

1389
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:23,359
begin right this this this this desire

1390
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:24,800
for control

1391
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,599
um

1392
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:27,599
part of its financial part of it is

1393
00:49:31,349 --> 00:49:30,000
simply just the lust for power and and

1394
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:31,359
wanting that

1395
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,559
so so

1396
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,480
i i

1397
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,510
i caution people all the time that if

1398
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:41,359
somebody tells you

1399
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:43,839
that they know where they claim to know

1400
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,319
what the source is of paranormal or

1401
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:49,119
supernatural or ufological

1402
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:51,040
phenomena

1403
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:53,200
they they want something from you right

1404
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:54,640
um

1405
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:56,800
we need to be cautious

1406
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,240
so i think in the book i say you know if

1407
00:50:01,349 --> 00:50:00,000
somebody tells you they know what ufos

1408
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,359
are they're they're either delusional or

1409
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:02,880
trying to sell you something

1410
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:04,720
um and i think that's a true statement i

1411
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:06,880
think the vast majority of voices in the

1412
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:08,960
ufo community that are authentic and

1413
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:11,920
legitimate often will say i have no idea

1414
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:14,160
what's going on right like i don't know

1415
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:16,160
all i can tell you is the history or i

1416
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:18,000
can provide you some cultural background

1417
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:19,760
or some or some some scientific

1418
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,920
background into what's going on here but

1419
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:23,440
that's it i'm not going to tell you it's

1420
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:24,400
aliens i'm not going to tell you with

1421
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:25,520
ultrastressors or whatever because we

1422
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,640
just don't know

1423
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,079
i think those are kind of the more

1424
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:29,599
authentic legitimate voices we need to

1425
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:30,480
listen to

1426
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:31,920
once people start making claims like oh

1427
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:34,640
for sure 100 it's alien or for sure 100

1428
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:36,800
it's interdimensional or for sure 100 is

1429
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:40,319
demonic or for sure 100 it's i don't

1430
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:41,760
know

1431
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,000
ghosts of

1432
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,160
dead indigenous people or something

1433
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:48,079
suddenly we need to be super cautious we

1434
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:49,200
kind of need to pull back a little bit

1435
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:50,480
right we need to kind of say okay hold

1436
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:51,440
on

1437
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:54,559
why are you saying that um and and

1438
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:57,440
like where are you getting this from um

1439
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:58,960
because suddenly

1440
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,800
you know we need to be aware that they

1441
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,119
might be leading us down a path um that

1442
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:06,240
serves them and not necessarily um truth

1443
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:09,839
or fact or or knowledge um so yeah i i

1444
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,599
agree i think i think vulnerability

1445
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:13,680
plays a big point i think ufos attract

1446
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:16,160
vulnerable people at times the same way

1447
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:17,040
sort of

1448
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:19,359
evangelical christianity or

1449
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:21,280
or any sort of

1450
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:23,040
other religious movement does right it

1451
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,040
finds people who are hurt and and it

1452
00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:27,599
provides them something um to help them

1453
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:28,640
rebuild

1454
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,520
and ufos i think are just another sort

1455
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:33,520
of religious tool in the tool belt let's

1456
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:36,160
put it that way spiritual tool maybe no

1457
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:38,319
absolutely so i mean i would recommend

1458
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:39,760
your book in it it's one i'm going to

1459
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:41,839
get myself so it's the ufo people are

1460
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:44,000
curious culture can you give us a little

1461
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:46,240
bit of a state of the union so given

1462
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,839
current events recent events the way

1463
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:49,599
this year's gone we've had a couple

1464
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,440
looking at crazy years in ufology where

1465
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:53,680
we've had the nimitz cases come out new

1466
00:51:57,190 --> 00:51:55,760
york times article ttsa rise to

1467
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:57,200
prominence

1468
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:59,119
had these videos we're waiting on more

1469
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:00,800
guys that little as london chris melon

1470
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:04,400
as a community where do you see ufology

1471
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,319
right now how broken is it

1472
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:08,640
or how together is it

1473
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:10,880
i think ufology's always sort of been

1474
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:12,559
broken i think that's why we love it so

1475
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:14,000
much right it's sort of been it's always

1476
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,160
been this island of lost toys and broken

1477
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,720
toys right um but i don't want to say

1478
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,480
that ufology is broken or together

1479
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,079
because i'm not sure if that's that's

1480
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:24,240
sort of a good way to look at it i think

1481
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:26,880
rather what we're going to see and what

1482
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:30,000
we're going to potentially experience is

1483
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:33,280
a reshaping and how people engage with

1484
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:35,040
the question of ufos i think what's

1485
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:36,240
gonna happen is you're gonna start to

1486
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:37,119
see

1487
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:38,880
more

1488
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:40,880
serious reporting on the subject i think

1489
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,240
you're gonna see

1490
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:44,319
the creation of

1491
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:45,280
um

1492
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:46,400
of of

1493
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:49,520
legitimate reporting on the ufo

1494
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,359
phenomenon um that deals more with

1495
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,520
um the evidence and and and maybe the

1496
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:57,119
cultural aspects and the scientific

1497
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:01,599
aspects and less on the typical tabloid

1498
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,319
crap that that exists right now

1499
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:06,640
um so i think that's gonna be one um i

1500
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,839
think it's i think you're gonna see

1501
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:11,359
more legitima

1502
00:53:16,470 --> 00:53:15,359
legitimization of the topic

1503
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,480
because i think it's becoming a lot

1504
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:18,640
harder to hide things um secondly i

1505
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:21,440
think i think what we're going to see is

1506
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:24,240
more information coming out in regards

1507
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:25,200
to

1508
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:28,079
what governments are currently doing in

1509
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:31,280
regards to to exploring or or

1510
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:34,640
engaging with uap um i'm not saying that

1511
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,960
it's going to be disclosure of of alien

1512
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:38,319
contact or anything i think that's

1513
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,240
nonsense i think rather what we're going

1514
00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:42,960
to see is that governments are are

1515
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:45,040
fundamentally they're always being

1516
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:46,160
fundamentally interested but they're

1517
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:49,839
they're they're still engaged um in

1518
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:52,720
ufos um and we're going to start seeing

1519
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,079
more of that information start to come

1520
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:57,200
out i think um the more political nature

1521
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,240
of ufology and ufo discourse or uap

1522
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:02,640
discourse is gonna is gonna emerge um

1523
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,440
over the next 365 days um

1524
00:54:11,109 --> 00:54:09,760
so i think for for me that's kind of all

1525
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:11,119
i can say at this point i think we're

1526
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,559
just we're gonna see a shift in the

1527
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:16,800
narrative and suddenly more people are

1528
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:19,119
gonna start talking about the subject in

1529
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:22,000
in a in a more authentic way in a more

1530
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,359
legitimate way

1531
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:25,440
um

1532
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:26,800
you know there's always going to be the

1533
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,119
hucksters and the shysters and and the

1534
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,440
guys who peddle alien mummies and all

1535
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:33,280
this stuff that's always going to exist

1536
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:35,280
um but i think what what maybe what

1537
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:36,640
you'll see is here here's a good way of

1538
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,359
putting it um

1539
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:42,319
yeah okay this is gonna sound um crass

1540
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:43,839
and i apologize to anyone who this

1541
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,920
offends um but i think what's gonna

1542
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,760
happen is you're gonna have a split in

1543
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:49,440
conversation i think what's gonna happen

1544
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:51,040
is you're gonna have

1545
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:54,960
a very real movement within

1546
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,599
good ufo discourse that's gonna kind of

1547
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:59,119
say um

1548
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:00,640
you know this is the table that we're

1549
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,720
talking at um and if somebody walks up

1550
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:04,240
and says here's my dead alien mummy

1551
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,520
we're gonna say listen to kids tables

1552
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:07,599
over there go sit somewhere else um you

1553
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,280
know get the hell out of the room right

1554
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:11,520
um like who let you in i think what

1555
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:12,559
you're gonna see is you're gonna see

1556
00:55:16,870 --> 00:55:14,160
this this this

1557
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:16,880
schism that's going to occur between the

1558
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,280
the more pop ufo attainment kind of

1559
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:23,200
stuff that's created and the more

1560
00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:25,119
authentic exploration of what's actually

1561
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:27,520
going on in government in politics

1562
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,920
behind the scenes in regards to the uap

1563
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:32,000
phenomena um so i think that's what's

1564
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:33,680
going to happen that that that rift is

1565
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:35,040
going to grow i think it already exists

1566
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:36,400
but it's going to grow significantly

1567
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:38,480
more um and and i think certain people

1568
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:39,200
are going to get cut out of

1569
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:40,240
conversations and they're not going to

1570
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:41,599
like it

1571
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:45,040
because they peddle nonsense um and and

1572
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:47,040
certain individuals who who are engaged

1573
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:48,640
in in researching this and looking at it

1574
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:50,720
and writing about it and and talking to

1575
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:52,240
people who are involved in in a more

1576
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,440
real sense

1577
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:55,119
are aware who peddles nonsense and who

1578
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:57,119
doesn't um and what's going to happen is

1579
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:57,920
is a

1580
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:59,760
fundamental shift in discourse i think

1581
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:00,720
that's we're going to see within the

1582
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:03,119
next year or two um but i'm gonna say a

1583
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,240
year i'm gonna predict state of the

1584
00:56:08,309 --> 00:56:06,400
union donald trump a donald trumpet i'm

1585
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,319
gonna build a wall and

1586
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,160
that wall is gonna divide the world no

1587
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:12,559
i'm just joking um

1588
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:14,720
keep up the aliens yeah keep all the no

1589
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:17,680
yeah 365 365 days that's my that's my

1590
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:19,599
claim anyway

1591
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:22,160
so on the podcast myself and you'll know

1592
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:25,440
um dan who is the signal on twitter um

1593
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:28,480
we recorded uh an episode just for fun

1594
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:29,680
at the weekend where we watch skin

1595
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:31,280
walker ranch episode one so it's

1596
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:32,559
available people have downloaded it

1597
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:33,839
feedback's been great and it was just a

1598
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,839
kind of fun us sharing our thoughts on

1599
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:38,079
the series the show our little problems

1600
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:40,720
with it but what we liked um you visited

1601
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:43,599
skinwalker ranch in 2019

1602
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:45,200
and i think you alluded to it before

1603
00:56:48,910 --> 00:56:46,960
that you said ufology's taking you to

1604
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:48,920
riding in helicopters with uh

1605
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:50,960
multi-millionaires i'm guessing that was

1606
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,119
with brandon fugo yeah

1607
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,280
uh so what was it like tell us a little

1608
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:57,280
bit about your your time in skinwalker

1609
00:57:00,390 --> 00:56:58,400
ranch

1610
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:00,400
sure um

1611
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:05,990
okay first of all i i i always kind of

1612
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:08,720
preface that that skinwalker ranch is is

1613
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,160
it's it's beautiful um it's it's uh it's

1614
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,480
idyllic um in a way

1615
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,079
if you if you're into sort of midwestern

1616
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:18,319
scenery um it's a place that i would

1617
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:19,680
love to go camping and it's a place that

1618
00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:20,960
i would love to just

1619
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:22,799
hang out in um

1620
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:25,040
overnight like you know in the middle of

1621
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:27,040
the wilderness out there um so so i'm

1622
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,880
gonna say that it's beautiful

1623
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:29,920
um

1624
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:32,160
and and strange all at the same time

1625
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,359
um i didn't have any personal

1626
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,280
experiences um i know a lot of people

1627
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,760
have claimed to have experiences there

1628
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:38,960
um there's a lot of stories and

1629
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:40,640
mythology obviously

1630
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:41,680
um

1631
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,680
i think what i found to be the most

1632
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:45,359
interesting is you have a team of

1633
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,040
individuals who who

1634
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,400
are at skinwalker ranch and um they're

1635
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,319
purely interested in just finding out

1636
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:54,400
the truth no matter what it is

1637
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:57,920
um you know the show i've only seen

1638
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,760
five episodes of it i've not seen the

1639
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,200
last three or four

1640
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:02,880
uh episodes

1641
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:03,680
um

1642
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:05,599
but you know i i don't want to speak to

1643
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:08,400
the show only because i'm not a big fan

1644
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,640
of of sort of that style of content and

1645
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:12,640
that type of content but

1646
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:14,640
um so so i find problems with it even if

1647
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:17,040
it's fine i just like the dramatic

1648
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,119
pauses it's like why this is not real

1649
00:58:22,630 --> 00:58:21,280
life um so

1650
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:22,640
the people there

1651
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,880
you know from uh from who i met and the

1652
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:26,799
people i met are are very authentic like

1653
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,880
they they are willing to say listen we

1654
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,400
don't know what's going on it could be

1655
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:32,160
very prosaic and that's great if we

1656
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:33,920
prove it is um or it could not be

1657
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:35,520
prosaic and it it'll be great if we

1658
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:37,280
could prove that it's not um they're

1659
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:38,240
they're just

1660
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:40,319
observing at this point and i think that

1661
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,520
that's what we need to sort of

1662
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:43,280
understand about skinwalker ranch

1663
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,760
there's a lot of um

1664
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:47,359
conspiracy and there's a lot of they're

1665
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:48,960
doing it for the money or they're doing

1666
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:52,640
it for fame or they're doing it for um

1667
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:55,359
they're doing it for for to to sort of

1668
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:56,880
prove their own paranormal beliefs or

1669
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:58,559
whatever and i i don't think that's true

1670
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:00,319
one there's no money in it really for

1671
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:03,280
for brandon fugle um literally any money

1672
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:05,040
this show makes for him he could like

1673
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:06,960
literally just do one minute worth of

1674
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,119
work and he would make that money um

1675
00:59:14,069 --> 00:59:11,119
yeah so so i don't think that's part of

1676
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,079
it i i don't think that for for him it's

1677
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:16,240
some personal quest i think he does have

1678
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:17,599
a bit of a

1679
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:20,480
sort of don quixote kind of um wanting

1680
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,359
to to find monsters maybe a little bit

1681
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,280
um i think we all do we all love a good

1682
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:27,520
mystery and and and um

1683
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:29,440
chasing monsters is definitely a fun

1684
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,040
aspect of life especially you can do

1685
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,960
that for a living so maybe that's part

1686
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,920
of it

1687
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,839
but i think he's he's at heart someone

1688
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,319
who loves to to he loves science he

1689
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:39,920
loves to understand what's going on in

1690
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:41,520
the world around him right he wants

1691
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:44,319
answers to the natural uh or maybe the

1692
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:47,200
supernatural world so you know he's

1693
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:48,400
doing it for

1694
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:50,640
reasons that are his own um but i think

1695
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,240
they're honest i think they're genuine i

1696
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:54,720
don't think there's some some silly

1697
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:55,599
um

1698
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:58,079
you know conspiracy around this

1699
01:00:02,309 --> 01:00:00,319
skin walker ranches is is that it's a

1700
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,319
science lab let's put it that way

1701
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:04,640
um it's really difficult to get

1702
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:07,280
universities to engage

1703
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:09,920
um at a place like that um you know i

1704
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:11,200
know they've contacted several

1705
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:12,640
universities to come out and study the

1706
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:14,240
place and the universities simply

1707
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,680
decline simply because they don't want

1708
01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:17,839
to be associated with skinwalker ranch

1709
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:20,400
and the mythology around it um you know

1710
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,680
the same way i think there was the

1711
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:24,480
university of uh colorado right didn't

1712
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:26,480
want to be associated with the blue book

1713
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:28,079
and the content report so they basically

1714
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:29,760
went out swinging saying we're just

1715
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,119
going to make this thing look dumb so

1716
01:00:36,789 --> 01:00:33,839
that our university doesn't suffer um

1717
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:36,799
and and you know unfortunately a lot of

1718
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:38,640
authentic

1719
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:42,559
been taken to try and bring proper

1720
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:45,119
academic rigor and proper academic

1721
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:47,680
institutions to skinwalker ranch all

1722
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:51,119
expenses paid and they decline um

1723
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,799
because again association so so i

1724
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:56,559
i think it's an honest attempt to try

1725
01:01:02,630 --> 01:00:59,839
and understand what's going on

1726
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:02,640
what unfortunately happens is is

1727
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,640
because those honest attempts are met

1728
01:01:07,109 --> 01:01:06,240
with

1729
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:07,119
um

1730
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:08,480
you know

1731
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:11,920
we decline to to participate um

1732
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:13,520
we're sort of left to other device like

1733
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,160
what what can we do now to try and get

1734
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:18,160
more public knowledge and awareness into

1735
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:19,599
this weird place that has these weird

1736
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:20,799
phenomena

1737
01:01:24,789 --> 01:01:23,119
well i think you know brandon fugle took

1738
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,799
the road that sort of a lot of us would

1739
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:26,720
take they go to the media

1740
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:28,799
listen if academic institutions don't

1741
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:31,119
want to do this we'll do it another way

1742
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:32,960
um and and you know he's taken a lot of

1743
01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:34,880
criticism right mick west has been one

1744
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:36,880
of his most ardent critics

1745
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:40,319
um about this and and you know i'm not

1746
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:43,599
sure if it's totally fair right um

1747
01:01:48,150 --> 01:01:46,160
i i think a lot of invitations have been

1748
01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:48,160
made and if people don't want to do it

1749
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:49,200
they don't want to do it there's not

1750
01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:51,040
much else you can do

1751
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:52,640
but he wants to know the truth so he's

1752
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:54,079
going to figure it out the best way he

1753
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:56,319
can with the tools and and resources he

1754
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:57,760
has available to him

1755
01:02:02,870 --> 01:02:00,640
um and can i just ask because i had a

1756
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:02,880
question sent in um

1757
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:06,079
from a foyer boy on twitter um what are

1758
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:08,559
your thoughts on the scientific efficacy

1759
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,280
of what's uh been

1760
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:13,119
of what's seen in the course of

1761
01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:15,200
skinwalker ranch so i had to check up

1762
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:16,400
efficacy as a world which you'll

1763
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:18,079
probably know and it's the ability to

1764
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:19,920
produce intended results for anyone who

1765
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,400
wasn't aware because i wasn't so from

1766
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:24,240
the setup you've seen what are the

1767
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,440
chances that they're going to get the

1768
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:27,599
results and whether that is proof of

1769
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:29,039
interdimensional beings or whether

1770
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,720
that's proof that it's prosaic as you

1771
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:32,480
say what kind of chance do they have

1772
01:02:36,069 --> 01:02:34,480
yeah i think the currents the current

1773
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:36,079
setup at the ranch the current hardware

1774
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:37,359
and software at the ranch is not

1775
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:38,960
designed to test anything so i think

1776
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:40,400
that's the first first thing we need to

1777
01:02:44,390 --> 01:02:41,920
understand is is this purely

1778
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:44,400
observational um so they're not there to

1779
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:46,400
test hypothesis or hypotheses rather

1780
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,640
they're there to simply observe

1781
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,880
what's going on and collect as much data

1782
01:02:54,870 --> 01:02:52,240
as they can

1783
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,880
unfortunately when it comes to tv that's

1784
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:56,559
really boring um

1785
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,839
sitting and watching stuff and

1786
01:03:02,470 --> 01:02:59,839
collecting data via observation is not

1787
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:02,480
necessarily exciting so

1788
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:04,160
what i think the television show has

1789
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:05,760
done and what i think history channel

1790
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:08,160
and prometheus entertainment um has sort

1791
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:11,039
of created is this kind of false sense

1792
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:12,799
of what goes on there in in the sense

1793
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,920
that you have

1794
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:15,599
um

1795
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:22,960
he's the miss taylor thank you travis

1796
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:24,960
taylor um you have dr travis taylor

1797
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,920
there kind of doing these tests right um

1798
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:29,760
and i think it makes for good television

1799
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:31,760
this is sort of his bag he's done it

1800
01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:33,760
before in other tv shows um so i think

1801
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:35,440
we need to just sort of be pragmatic

1802
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:38,000
here and understand that the tv show

1803
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,680
serves one purpose

1804
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,039
um

1805
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:44,079
the actual monitoring on the ranch

1806
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:48,319
serves another um so so

1807
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:51,039
i i i i i'm sure i'm going to make

1808
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:52,559
brandon fugal upset but you know

1809
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,400
everybody by everything i've said so far

1810
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:56,240
but i think it's just you know we need

1811
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,119
to be understanding that that

1812
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,039
media and television

1813
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,319
are are

1814
01:04:05,770 --> 01:04:04,240
different than than sort of real life

1815
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:05,780
let's put it that way um

1816
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:08,000
[Music]

1817
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:10,079
yeah that's just okay that's all i can

1818
01:04:12,309 --> 01:04:11,119
really say to ask that question because

1819
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:12,319
i don't really know the rest of it i

1820
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:13,440
also haven't seen the show enough to

1821
01:04:16,150 --> 01:04:15,359
make a sort of a more expert comment

1822
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:16,160
here

1823
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:20,000
because i've only seen a few episodes um

1824
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:21,039
yeah

1825
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:23,359
listen

1826
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:25,520
the science being done just to reiterate

1827
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:28,319
is is purely observational at this point

1828
01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:30,640
whatever the tv show is doing

1829
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:32,240
um that's what they're doing and and

1830
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,119
obviously that's a question you have to

1831
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:36,079
ask to brandon fugle um or check out his

1832
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:37,760
taylor or the people at prometheus like

1833
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,960
i really personally don't know um

1834
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:42,720
so yeah i guess that's the best way i

1835
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:44,400
can answer your question um when i was

1836
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:45,359
there

1837
01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:47,599
it was purely an observational

1838
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:49,520
program and process

1839
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:51,920
um what's happened since

1840
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,720
um

1841
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:54,400
i don't know

1842
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:56,160
no that's totally fair i'm speaking with

1843
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:57,839
thomas winterton who is the ranch

1844
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:00,880
superintendent this saturday um about it

1845
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:03,280
and again uh we can avoid our opinions

1846
01:05:07,270 --> 01:05:05,599
on the watch along and i love the idea

1847
01:05:08,549 --> 01:05:07,280
of the show i love the mythology around

1848
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:08,559
skinwalker ranch i love the

1849
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:10,799
possibilities that out there the first

1850
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:13,680
series as various you see observational

1851
01:05:17,349 --> 01:05:15,359
sometimes a little bit forced what they

1852
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:17,359
may or may not see but i know thomas

1853
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,880
winterton from a conversation he's had

1854
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,880
with one of the listeners has basically

1855
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:22,720
said the first series has very much been

1856
01:05:25,990 --> 01:05:24,240
think of it as going to the doctor when

1857
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:26,000
you've got a bit of an issue and they'll

1858
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:27,839
do some initial testing to kind of see

1859
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:29,920
you know what might be the cause the

1860
01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:31,680
second series is very much going into

1861
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:33,039
more detail and that's where they're

1862
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:34,480
really hoping to ramp things up which

1863
01:05:38,789 --> 01:05:36,720
should be getting filmed just now so but

1864
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:38,799
as you quite rightly say they are still

1865
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:41,359
filming a tv show so if it was three

1866
01:05:45,029 --> 01:05:43,440
months of nothing happening you have to

1867
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:45,039
make it look like something's happening

1868
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:47,200
and how they how much they push that is

1869
01:05:50,470 --> 01:05:48,799
where it can kind of lose

1870
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,480
a particular type of viewer on the show

1871
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,200
so again that's totally fair um i had a

1872
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:55,200
question from the signal um again from

1873
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:57,200
dan so he was asking did you have any

1874
01:06:00,870 --> 01:05:58,319
thoughts or did you notice the

1875
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,880
triangular map that they had on the wall

1876
01:06:03,829 --> 01:06:02,319
and there were certain points that were

1877
01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:03,839
correlated within it i can see you

1878
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:06,000
smiling so uh and he just wanted to know

1879
01:06:10,230 --> 01:06:07,760
your thoughts were on that

1880
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,240
um what what are you uh

1881
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:12,880
do you know what the points are

1882
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:14,960
like was he able to figure out what

1883
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,880
those locations were on the map um so

1884
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,960
there was one of two things so dan said

1885
01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:23,039
very artistic as i found out recently

1886
01:06:28,950 --> 01:06:25,359
and he has created his own

1887
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:28,960
incredible three-dimensional map uh of

1888
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:31,119
the ranch itself and points where things

1889
01:06:35,109 --> 01:06:32,880
have happened i can't remember though if

1890
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:35,119
this was the map that had the points of

1891
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:36,720
the bermuda triangle or i might be

1892
01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:39,119
mixing up the unidentified that had a

1893
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,520
map on the wall with points that were

1894
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:43,440
basically unidentified so you might know

1895
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:45,119
better than me

1896
01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:47,039
the map on the wall at skinwalker ranch

1897
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:48,480
is a world map so it's not a map of the

1898
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:50,240
ranch with triangulation it's it's a

1899
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:53,200
it's a map of the planet with three

1900
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:55,440
points um

1901
01:07:00,630 --> 01:06:59,039
no um so okay

1902
01:07:02,150 --> 01:07:00,640
okay because this is

1903
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:02,160
i have to figure out how if i'm gonna

1904
01:07:05,190 --> 01:07:03,680
violate anything when it came when it

1905
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:05,200
comes to an article that i've been

1906
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:13,270
um listen i i have to be really cautious

1907
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:14,880
so i'm

1908
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:16,640
yeah i've been doing sort of some some

1909
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:19,440
research into into some stuff that

1910
01:07:23,109 --> 01:07:21,680
correlates to this i just can't because

1911
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:23,119
like i said i don't want to throw myself

1912
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:27,510
let's just say that there have been

1913
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:29,680
other

1914
01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,359
it has nothing to do with the paranormal

1915
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,039
i'm gonna i'm gonna kind of be super

1916
01:07:37,029 --> 01:07:35,280
clear here so the three locations okay

1917
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:37,039
well obviously one location skinwalker

1918
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:39,280
range but the other two locations the

1919
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,880
incidents that occurred have nothing to

1920
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:42,400
do with the paranormal

1921
01:07:44,710 --> 01:07:43,599
um

1922
01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:44,720
they're just

1923
01:07:50,309 --> 01:07:47,680
incidents of interest that similar sort

1924
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:50,319
of things have occurred um

1925
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:51,760
that that people have experienced

1926
01:07:55,349 --> 01:07:53,359
skinwalker wrench so that's all i'm

1927
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:55,359
gonna kind of say but i can't give away

1928
01:07:58,150 --> 01:07:56,960
too much i'm sure there's some internet

1929
01:08:00,710 --> 01:07:58,160
sleuths out there that have figured it

1930
01:08:02,630 --> 01:08:00,720
out um so i'm not gonna you know i'm not

1931
01:08:04,710 --> 01:08:02,640
gonna pretend it's some magical mystical

1932
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:04,720
thing uh or i'm some i've asked some

1933
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:06,640
secret knowledge because i don't um it

1934
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:08,079
literally just hits in the face when you

1935
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,680
like i literally looked at the map and

1936
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:10,880
was like uh interesting so i just kind

1937
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:12,240
of noted the locations did a google

1938
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:13,520
search was like oh

1939
01:08:19,349 --> 01:08:16,480
that makes sense um so i i kind of have

1940
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:19,359
gone down this road of research but

1941
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,040
um yeah no i'm i can't talk about it i

1942
01:08:26,309 --> 01:08:24,719
want to but i can't because i'll throw

1943
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:26,319
myself under the bus

1944
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:28,960
okay no no totally fine sorry

1945
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:30,400
that it's not here normally i'll say

1946
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:32,400
that it's not paranormal see this is

1947
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,080
where you have become one of the ufo

1948
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:36,080
people that even giving an answer that

1949
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,520
tells us it's not paranormal and there's

1950
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,440
nothing interesting to see here is

1951
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:40,960
really interesting and intriguing and

1952
01:08:44,070 --> 01:08:42,640
makes you think yeah yeah but he knows

1953
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:44,080
more than he's letting on not that you

1954
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:45,520
are saying that but yeah all right

1955
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:48,560
listen it's it's and i'm i will admit to

1956
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:49,440
this

1957
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:50,400
um

1958
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:52,480
the reason why i'm not talking about it

1959
01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:53,920
is because

1960
01:08:58,309 --> 01:08:56,480
i want to sell an article and make money

1961
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:58,319
from it so it's purely financial at this

1962
01:09:01,269 --> 01:08:59,520
point right like i've been doing

1963
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:01,279
research that i've put time into

1964
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,440
something it's been a work thing and and

1965
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:05,520
i want to profit from the time i've put

1966
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,600
in right so um i have to be really

1967
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:09,359
cautious because i could literally be

1968
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:11,520
just handing somebody money from my own

1969
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:13,040
wallet um and that's not something i

1970
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:15,120
want to do in this case but

1971
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:18,159
i will sort of say it is not um ufo

1972
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:19,600
related maybe that's kind of the best

1973
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:20,400
way to

1974
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:22,080
to put it it's not ufo or paranormal

1975
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:23,759
related um it just so happens that

1976
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:25,839
skinwalker is kind of

1977
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:27,600
they have the map up i guess but it's

1978
01:09:32,070 --> 01:09:28,640
interesting

1979
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:32,080
yeah yeah i got it awful okay sorry

1980
01:09:35,269 --> 01:09:33,520
do you want that answer left on the

1981
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:35,279
podcast i don't mind taking that out if

1982
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:37,199
you want me to take it out

1983
01:09:40,390 --> 01:09:39,120
um what then i'm like still a half

1984
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,400
journalist i'm not going to make money

1985
01:09:44,070 --> 01:09:42,400
yeah no no no i mean like just in

1986
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:44,080
general that if you're saying you've

1987
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:45,359
done a bit of research you don't want

1988
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:47,440
anyone i'm happy to take that out if you

1989
01:09:51,510 --> 01:09:50,000
want the whole question and answer if

1990
01:09:52,870 --> 01:09:51,520
you would rather if you don't if you

1991
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:52,880
don't take it out you have to leave this

1992
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:54,800
part in

1993
01:09:59,350 --> 01:09:57,280
yeah so i see that's what i want to do

1994
01:10:00,950 --> 01:09:59,360
okay i might only be six episodes in

1995
01:10:02,470 --> 01:10:00,960
seven episodes in but i know what sounds

1996
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,480
good so i would totally love to leave

1997
01:10:05,830 --> 01:10:04,239
this in but i'll leave it up to you

1998
01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:05,840
it'll totally make sense no this is an

1999
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:07,360
interesting this is a good brexium

2000
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:08,880
conversation you're literally asking a

2001
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:11,199
guest if you you know if you should take

2002
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,800
something out of your episode because

2003
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:14,480
listen i'm doing it purely for financial

2004
01:10:18,149 --> 01:10:16,480
reasons i have no problem

2005
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:18,159
i've been researching an article now for

2006
01:10:21,510 --> 01:10:19,760
a long time and i want to get paid for

2007
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:21,520
it um so so no there's nothing wrong

2008
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:22,960
with that i mean i'm still you know i'm

2009
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:24,239
still trying to put bread on my family's

2010
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:25,760
table um

2011
01:10:28,870 --> 01:10:27,600
but yeah it obviously they show it on

2012
01:10:30,149 --> 01:10:28,880
the show so it's interesting and

2013
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:30,159
compelling to people and people wonder

2014
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,520
what it is and there's gonna be

2015
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:33,199
obviously a lot of speculation how it's

2016
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:35,199
connected and etc

2017
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:37,120
um

2018
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,960
yeah it's it's it's interesting it'll

2019
01:10:42,790 --> 01:10:40,960
make a good article um but again it's an

2020
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:42,800
article i wanna get paid for so you can

2021
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:44,480
choose to keep it in or not it doesn't

2022
01:10:47,270 --> 01:10:45,840
bother me any

2023
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:47,280
yeah we'll keep it and we'll leave this

2024
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:48,640
full conversation about keeping it or

2025
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:50,000
not in as well so people can see what

2026
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:51,280
actually happens sometimes on these

2027
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,640
things so

2028
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:54,000
um

2029
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:55,760
see the underbelly of the podcast i like

2030
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:56,400
it

2031
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:00,480
i do that's for fun i've said to all my

2032
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:02,880
guests if no one listened this last six

2033
01:11:06,149 --> 01:11:04,719
weeks has been crazy enough for me just

2034
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:06,159
to speak to people like yourself and

2035
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:08,239
have these amazing conversations so i

2036
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:10,480
absolutely love it i want to ask you a

2037
01:11:14,310 --> 01:11:12,880
quick um question on skin walker ranch

2038
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,320
and then i'm worried of time and i want

2039
01:11:17,430 --> 01:11:15,760
to do the quick fire round with you as

2040
01:11:20,229 --> 01:11:17,440
well because i think you've got maybe 5

2041
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,239
10 minutes left so brandon fuego

2042
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,760
said in your article that i suggest

2043
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,520
anyone goes and looks at it was back in

2044
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:25,600
march of this year that talked about

2045
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:27,120
your visit and there's a lot of great

2046
01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:28,239
quotes and there are a lot of great

2047
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:30,400
questions um

2048
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:32,480
perhaps it's an intelligence from

2049
01:11:37,110 --> 01:11:34,800
another reality or dimension

2050
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:37,120
again i'm going to ask amg what do you

2051
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:38,800
think is happening on skinwalker ranch

2052
01:11:42,870 --> 01:11:40,480
if anything

2053
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:42,880
oh man um

2054
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:45,600
again right it's tough i

2055
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:47,600
i it falls down that sort of again

2056
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:49,600
speculative rabbit hole that that do we

2057
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:50,480
really want to fall down because we

2058
01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:54,239
don't have enough information um

2059
01:12:00,310 --> 01:11:57,760
uh i am i've admitted before that i'm

2060
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:00,320
much more willing to let's say use the

2061
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:02,560
words believe that

2062
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:04,239
um

2063
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:10,000
i'm not saying you know ghosts and and

2064
01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,000
stuff like that but i think people do

2065
01:12:17,830 --> 01:12:14,400
encounter mysterious things i i think

2066
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:17,840
people do have bizarre experiences that

2067
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:19,760
fall outside of the realm of you know

2068
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:22,560
quote unquote normal um and i'm not

2069
01:12:25,510 --> 01:12:24,480
prepared currently to chalk it all up to

2070
01:12:26,310 --> 01:12:25,520
delusion

2071
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:26,320
um

2072
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:28,320
so you know

2073
01:12:33,990 --> 01:12:31,280
everyone's heard the story of of um

2074
01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:34,000
the widow who wakes up not the widow

2075
01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:35,360
that well she's still married well i

2076
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:37,760
guess not the widow who wakes up in the

2077
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:40,000
middle of the night um and has the

2078
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:43,199
premonition that her husband who was a

2079
01:12:47,350 --> 01:12:44,880
bomber in the second world war got shot

2080
01:12:49,830 --> 01:12:47,360
down over nazi germany and died and she

2081
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:49,840
suddenly knew right um we all know the

2082
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:52,080
story of of um

2083
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:54,640
the the soldiers who just

2084
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:56,480
get gut feelings that something bad's

2085
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:00,239
gonna happen and it does um we all know

2086
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:03,040
um this is an interesting one

2087
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:05,199
we know that when snipers

2088
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:06,880
in the army and in the military are

2089
01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:10,480
trained um to be snipers um they don't

2090
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:12,159
bead the target

2091
01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:13,840
until they're ready to pull the trigger

2092
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:16,239
because oftentimes the target just feels

2093
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:18,560
something's up and they go to cover

2094
01:13:24,070 --> 01:13:20,880
um something weird is going on right

2095
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:24,080
there is i think something unknown

2096
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:26,560
happening in in the world around us um i

2097
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:28,080
i don't think

2098
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:29,920
everything in the universe can be

2099
01:13:34,550 --> 01:13:32,239
explained through science i think that

2100
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:34,560
there are mysteries and and anomalies

2101
01:13:38,229 --> 01:13:36,719
that exist um

2102
01:13:40,390 --> 01:13:38,239
that that make

2103
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:40,400
you know life on this planet interesting

2104
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:42,159
um you know like i said i i like i said

2105
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:44,800
previously you know i i'm catholic so

2106
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:46,560
you know i have this fundamental belief

2107
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:48,080
that a dead jewish carpenter came back

2108
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:49,120
to life

2109
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:51,040
um

2110
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:53,520
you know so

2111
01:13:57,990 --> 01:13:55,520
is it possible that something

2112
01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:58,000
supernatural let's say or paranormal

2113
01:14:01,830 --> 01:14:00,159
quote unquote paranormal is happening

2114
01:14:03,270 --> 01:14:01,840
how the baggage that word has right

2115
01:14:06,310 --> 01:14:03,280
something paranormal is happening on

2116
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:06,320
skinwalker ranch sure you know it's

2117
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:08,560
possible i'm not prepared to say what it

2118
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:10,159
is because i don't know

2119
01:14:14,950 --> 01:14:11,920
um and i don't want to speculate because

2120
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:14,960
i think you know belief is the enemy but

2121
01:14:22,149 --> 01:14:20,709
part of me wants to believe um part of

2122
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,159
me because i'm probably also on my

2123
01:14:26,830 --> 01:14:24,560
personal quest for vindication um and my

2124
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:26,840
personal quest for god

2125
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,640
um i think there is something

2126
01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:29,920
interesting happening on skinwalker

2127
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:32,800
ranch do i think every single experience

2128
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:34,960
out there is paranormal no of course not

2129
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:37,440
right even i was spooked at times out

2130
01:14:40,830 --> 01:14:39,679
there when nothing happened but i i knew

2131
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:40,840
it was just my

2132
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:43,360
brain picking up on the mythology that i

2133
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:44,719
had collected and researched for the

2134
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:45,520
last

2135
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:48,320
two years on the place um sort of

2136
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:50,159
manifesting itself right you know i'd be

2137
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:51,679
walking through the old homestead and it

2138
01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:53,120
was dark

2139
01:14:56,950 --> 01:14:54,320
and i was afraid something was going to

2140
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:56,960
jump out at me um nothing did and i knew

2141
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:58,719
it was all in my imagination

2142
01:15:02,870 --> 01:14:59,440
so

2143
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,880
well right there's gonna be periods

2144
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:04,640
where where people have experiences on

2145
01:15:08,709 --> 01:15:06,239
that ranch that aren't necessarily sort

2146
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:08,719
of quote unquote real

2147
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:10,880
but on the flip side there's a lot of

2148
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,400
you know stories from that ranch that

2149
01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:13,920
that clearly indicates something weird

2150
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:16,719
is going on um

2151
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:19,280
so so i'm gonna sit there i think in my

2152
01:15:24,870 --> 01:15:22,400
current opinion and my current belief

2153
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:24,880
again awful word but my current belief

2154
01:15:28,229 --> 01:15:26,400
is is

2155
01:15:29,510 --> 01:15:28,239
something odd is happening at skinwalker

2156
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:29,520
ranch

2157
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:31,360
something let's say anomalous

2158
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:34,320
that's all i have at this point um

2159
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:37,199
so so that that's that's to answer your

2160
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:39,679
question that's where i sit um again i

2161
01:15:42,550 --> 01:15:41,199
could be proven wrong and i'm fine with

2162
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,560
that um

2163
01:15:47,750 --> 01:15:44,560
i don't i don't hinge my self-worth on

2164
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:47,760
my beliefs so um i i'm

2165
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:50,560
i'm happy to sit in supernatural is a

2166
01:15:55,110 --> 01:15:53,520
maybe let's sit there

2167
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:55,120
i like it that's the beauty of my

2168
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:56,800
position doing these podcasts that i can

2169
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:58,080
sit here and just ask the questions

2170
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,520
about things i want to know so i don't

2171
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:01,199
have to commit to an answer but know

2172
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,360
that that's perfect listen um before you

2173
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,640
finish up we'll move on to the quick

2174
01:16:08,790 --> 01:16:06,719
fire so i've got a few names incidents

2175
01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:08,800
topics you can say as little of as much

2176
01:16:13,750 --> 01:16:11,520
as you want uh and that's the the

2177
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:13,760
initial finishing up okay so you've been

2178
01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:15,520
great to listen to mg as well so thank

2179
01:16:18,950 --> 01:16:16,719
you very much i'm sure people are going

2180
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:18,960
to love it so the first one and you also

2181
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:20,400
wrote an article on this would be the

2182
01:16:29,430 --> 01:16:26,470
um it was

2183
01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:29,440
most likely just a prosaic series of

2184
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:31,760
drones and skydivers with pyrotechnics

2185
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:32,800
um

2186
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,239
i'm going to go with nothing interesting

2187
01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:36,320
happened

2188
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:39,120
sure enough linda moulton how again

2189
01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:40,480
someone you wrote about in one of your

2190
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:42,560
articles about selling the

2191
01:16:49,350 --> 01:16:45,920
the piece of potential wedged ufo for 35

2192
01:16:50,630 --> 01:16:49,360
000 to ttsa so linda molten how

2193
01:16:52,709 --> 01:16:50,640
um

2194
01:16:55,350 --> 01:16:52,719
linda's a a wonderful

2195
01:16:57,510 --> 01:16:55,360
kind person um

2196
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,520
but um i i i

2197
01:17:02,310 --> 01:16:59,280
i really struggle with some of the

2198
01:17:03,830 --> 01:17:02,320
information she presents um i think as a

2199
01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:03,840
journalist

2200
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:07,199
i think she she she

2201
01:17:13,350 --> 01:17:10,080
gives credence maybe to ideas that

2202
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:13,360
aren't necessarily legitimate um and i'm

2203
01:17:19,189 --> 01:17:17,120
not sure why so that's all i can say

2204
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:19,199
about that

2205
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:27,350
um

2206
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:29,600
interesting guy i'd love to sit down and

2207
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:31,199
have a beer with him

2208
01:17:34,470 --> 01:17:32,640
um again

2209
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,480
not too sure where his head at is all

2210
01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:36,000
the time

2211
01:17:41,189 --> 01:17:39,040
but um i give him

2212
01:17:42,390 --> 01:17:41,199
i give him all the props in the world

2213
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:42,400
for

2214
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:44,400
finding guys like luis elizondo and

2215
01:17:48,870 --> 01:17:47,280
chris mellon and and assembling

2216
01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:48,880
that um

2217
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:50,960
so for all the people that that sort of

2218
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:54,000
hate on him um you know i i would sort

2219
01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:55,360
of say they should be able to you know

2220
01:17:58,709 --> 01:17:57,440
do better um but

2221
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,719
you know again i don't actually agree

2222
01:18:02,550 --> 01:18:00,400
with everything he he he says or

2223
01:18:04,149 --> 01:18:02,560
believes in um but that's okay i don't

2224
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:04,159
have to agree with you

2225
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:05,760
no it could be right it could it could

2226
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:08,880
be wrong yeah um so the next one is all

2227
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:13,280
the strange and the recent virtual expo

2228
01:18:17,830 --> 01:18:15,600
oh that was a that was that was fun i i

2229
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:17,840
i will be totally honest i watched micah

2230
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:19,920
hanks's and i watched mine and then i

2231
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:22,719
had to be a dad so i was um unable to

2232
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:24,880
kind of finish it um i know jason's

2233
01:18:30,470 --> 01:18:27,360
slowly releasing them uh online so i'm

2234
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:30,480
going to kind of consume them all um but

2235
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:32,000
i was only able to kind of be free for

2236
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:34,000
the morning and then um my two-year-old

2237
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:35,760
and my four-year-old were suddenly like

2238
01:18:40,070 --> 01:18:37,760
crawling on me so i had to go deal with

2239
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:40,080
them uh so yeah it was a fun time i

2240
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:42,000
really enjoyed it um i thought it was a

2241
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:43,520
cool idea

2242
01:18:46,790 --> 01:18:45,440
it was and i just wanted to get that in

2243
01:18:48,310 --> 01:18:46,800
there because i had some issues logging

2244
01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:48,320
in on the morning and then with it being

2245
01:18:51,910 --> 01:18:50,480
uk time and whatnot like yourself i'm

2246
01:18:54,390 --> 01:18:51,920
kind of going back and watching them as

2247
01:18:56,070 --> 01:18:54,400
they come out so yeah mj's is awesome

2248
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:56,080
definitely recommend watching that and

2249
01:18:59,350 --> 01:18:57,760
then make sure you go on and maybe

2250
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:59,360
that's the future of expos it'd be great

2251
01:19:02,390 --> 01:19:00,880
to get together again one day but while

2252
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:02,400
we can't do that kind of thing this was

2253
01:19:06,470 --> 01:19:04,480
definitely something new and it was a

2254
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:06,480
good i like that someone's tried a new

2255
01:19:11,510 --> 01:19:08,159
type of medium for an expo and i think

2256
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:13,910
three more things mj

2257
01:19:20,830 --> 01:19:15,199
tic-tac

2258
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:24,550
um well i mean i i feel that the nimitz

2259
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:26,560
cases is really compelling for a ufo

2260
01:19:28,790 --> 01:19:27,440
case

2261
01:19:30,790 --> 01:19:28,800
um

2262
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:30,800
i think that

2263
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,040
here like everything ufological right

2264
01:19:36,709 --> 01:19:35,040
the tic tac has kind of taken on its own

2265
01:19:37,750 --> 01:19:36,719
mythology um

2266
01:19:40,229 --> 01:19:37,760
so

2267
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:40,239
it's like roswell right um

2268
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:42,480
you know something happened at roswell

2269
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:44,400
unfortunately everything we have

2270
01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:46,080
information on in regards to roswell's

2271
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:47,920
is like mythological now and we just

2272
01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:50,880
can't figure out what it actually was um

2273
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:52,640
which is why i don't study roswell um

2274
01:19:56,390 --> 01:19:54,320
but i think the tic tac is is kind of

2275
01:19:58,470 --> 01:19:56,400
that it's this is curious

2276
01:19:59,830 --> 01:19:58,480
we're watching mythology occur in real

2277
01:20:03,110 --> 01:19:59,840
time here we're watching this kind of

2278
01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:03,120
lore and legend build around this

2279
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:04,719
this this

2280
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:07,679
curious little incident um

2281
01:20:13,110 --> 01:20:10,560
so so i think the tic tac ufo

2282
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:13,120
concept i think it's compelling um i

2283
01:20:18,149 --> 01:20:15,120
think the incidents

2284
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:18,159
around it are compelling um i think that

2285
01:20:22,310 --> 01:20:19,679
we're also going to see though

2286
01:20:24,629 --> 01:20:22,320
this mythological

2287
01:20:27,510 --> 01:20:24,639
framework built around it to include a

2288
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:27,520
whole host of weird explanations

2289
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:30,480
um that that will sometimes make sense

2290
01:20:34,149 --> 01:20:33,120
and often not make sense so

2291
01:20:37,030 --> 01:20:34,159
yeah

2292
01:20:39,030 --> 01:20:37,040
mythology and reality merging um

2293
01:20:41,350 --> 01:20:39,040
right now as we speak

2294
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:41,360
i like that and the last one and this is

2295
01:20:44,870 --> 01:20:42,800
very much what this means to you i like

2296
01:20:46,470 --> 01:20:44,880
to ask all the guests to finish off

2297
01:20:48,709 --> 01:20:46,480
disclosure

2298
01:20:49,750 --> 01:20:48,719
oh god um

2299
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:49,760
yeah

2300
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:54,080
lexicon um

2301
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:55,040
yeah

2302
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:56,719
what are we disclosing can i can i

2303
01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,639
caveat the question with what exactly is

2304
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:00,719
being disclosed

2305
01:21:05,910 --> 01:21:03,120
or is it just no i'd have to just answer

2306
01:21:12,310 --> 01:21:08,310
disclosure that

2307
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:15,110
strange things make incursions into

2308
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:18,719
american air space and and and land or

2309
01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:19,679
sea

2310
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:21,360
area like like

2311
01:21:25,350 --> 01:21:22,880
melbourne state

2312
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:25,360
it's we're finally having um more let's

2313
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:26,239
say

2314
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:28,560
transparency that

2315
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:31,840
objects make incursions um into

2316
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:33,520
territory that is the united states of

2317
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:35,440
america and potentially other countries

2318
01:21:37,910 --> 01:21:36,960
as well

2319
01:21:41,030 --> 01:21:37,920
what we

2320
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:41,040
going to have is disclosure that you

2321
01:21:45,189 --> 01:21:42,320
know the united states government has

2322
01:21:46,709 --> 01:21:45,199
been colluding with aliens uh or or

2323
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:46,719
interdimensional beings or time

2324
01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:48,480
traveling humans i don't think we're

2325
01:21:55,030 --> 01:21:52,960
gonna get that uh any time ever um

2326
01:21:57,510 --> 01:21:55,040
so so when we talk about the disclosure

2327
01:21:58,629 --> 01:21:57,520
movement or the disclosure community or

2328
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:58,639
whatever

2329
01:22:01,750 --> 01:21:59,840
um

2330
01:22:04,070 --> 01:22:01,760
i want to burst the bubble of people

2331
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:04,080
that think that you know yep the united

2332
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,600
states has a handshake arrangement with

2333
01:22:08,470 --> 01:22:07,199
the aliens and they're visiting us and

2334
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:08,480
they're walking among us and they're

2335
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:11,360
they're abducting us in exchange for for

2336
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:12,639
technology

2337
01:22:17,189 --> 01:22:14,960
and and reverse engineered ships and and

2338
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:17,199
all that stuff um or that there's flying

2339
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:19,199
saucers in a bunker somewhere that that

2340
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:20,960
are weren't made here i'm going to say

2341
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:23,920
that is not true and that's just part of

2342
01:22:27,030 --> 01:22:26,159
the ufo methos

2343
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:27,040
um

2344
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:27,760
but

2345
01:22:32,550 --> 01:22:30,239
disclosure that the united states has an

2346
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,560
active research program into

2347
01:22:36,229 --> 01:22:34,800
unidentified aerial phenomena

2348
01:22:38,310 --> 01:22:36,239
disclosure that

2349
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:38,320
you know they don't know what's going on

2350
01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:40,080
in the skies all the time

2351
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:42,800
definitely the case

2352
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:44,719
awesome um but mj it's been great

2353
01:22:48,870 --> 01:22:46,560
talking to you you can follow mj on

2354
01:22:50,550 --> 01:22:48,880
twitter at mj banayas please go back and

2355
01:22:53,110 --> 01:22:50,560
read his articles there's some great

2356
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:53,120
ones on face as well um give those a

2357
01:22:55,830 --> 01:22:54,800
click especially when the ones come out

2358
01:22:58,709 --> 01:22:55,840
that are going to make them some more

2359
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:58,719
cash make sure you go and read those

2360
01:23:03,830 --> 01:23:01,440
uh his book the ufo people are curious

2361
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:03,840
culture is available on amazon again go

2362
01:23:06,790 --> 01:23:05,360
out and buy that this weekend it's a

2363
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:06,800
great read and when we're all locked

2364
01:23:10,390 --> 01:23:08,719
down followed and very much stuck in

2365
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:10,400
doors due to whatever's going on outside

2366
01:23:13,990 --> 01:23:12,560
your own homes why not pick that up and

2367
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:14,000
give it a read um it's been great

2368
01:23:17,030 --> 01:23:15,360
chatting to you mj anything you want to

2369
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:17,040
can i say the listeners before you head

2370
01:23:19,189 --> 01:23:18,239
off

2371
01:23:20,470 --> 01:23:19,199
um

2372
01:23:22,709 --> 01:23:20,480
no i just want to say thanks very much

2373
01:23:24,229 --> 01:23:22,719
for for having me on um i i really

2374
01:23:26,229 --> 01:23:24,239
appreciate your time and um this has

2375
01:23:28,310 --> 01:23:26,239
been a lot of fun so thank you very much

2376
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:28,320
that is all for this week's show thank

2377
01:23:32,310 --> 01:23:30,320
you very much for listening please

2378
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:32,320
remember to leave the podcast to review

2379
01:23:37,270 --> 01:23:34,960
on your chosen platform you can like

2380
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:37,280
retweet and subscribe that would all be

2381
01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:39,199
very much appreciated the shows are

2382
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:41,360
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

2383
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:42,880
more and more you can sign up at

2384
01:23:48,149 --> 01:23:45,360
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

2385
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:48,159
podcast access shows ad ad-free as well

2386
01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:50,320
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2387
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:53,199
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2388
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:56,880
twitter it's at ufo uap a.m and again

2389
01:24:01,500 --> 01:23:58,800
folks as always keep looking up you

2390
01:24:21,910 --> 01:24:01,510
never know what you might see

2391
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:28,620
is

2392
01:25:09,189 --> 01:24:51,270
[Music]

2393
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:12,210
because it doesn't really scare me

2394
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:32,180
[Music]

2395
01:25:46,090 --> 01:25:41,510
consider your heart considered consider

2396
01:26:09,030 --> 01:25:59,290
[Music]

2397
01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:09,040
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

2398
01:26:31,810 --> 01:26:29,669
[Music]

2399
01:26:40,730 --> 01:26:31,820
it's very different

2400
01:26:40,740 --> 01:26:55,910
[Music]

2401
01:26:55,920 --> 01:27:00,730
yes